Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Kursk]

Well, the final version of the PIA is to be published by the end of this month. Tomorrow's meeting will, apparently, contribute to the process. We have already been warned that we will not like all the PIA's conclusions but will embrace some. I assume this means we're not likely to like all that might be concluded as it wouldn't be proper for conclusions to precede the evidence

[80/20Thinking]

Hi all,

Apologies for the silence. I've been dealing (ironically enough) with another RIPA issue - local authorities abusing the covert surveillance provisions of the Act. All those people who'd called us complaining about unmarked vans at the bottom of their street are getting a little more attention from us now.

Anyhow, briefly, yes you are free to ask whatever questions you wish. I take the point about the Q&A panel just being Phorm. I'll ask the Chair to give Richard and I equal access, or be on the panel as well. We'll try to limit speakers to 15 minutes or less, so there should be at least an hour for Q&A.

You may have seen that we're filming the whole event for the Web. Unedited.

Sorry, but I can't keep up with the number of queries and points being made, so I'll just have to dip in whenever I can. Please don't take it personally if I miss you. I'll endeavour to come back later and answer as many points as I can.

Oh, and as for the person who compared me to George Best. Yes, well, maybe given the developments in the world now you should consider whether sometimes I too wake up after half a pointless lifetime and also ask "where did it all go wrong Simon".

[amateria]

Kursk, yes, it can't be that the conclusions have already been determined. But then, if there is to be no proper process, and in particular no informed consultation, I am not clear what the conclusions will be based on.

---------- Post added at 00:46 ---------- Previous post was at 00:43 ----------

Simon, it would be really good if you could answer any of the questions and respond to any of the comments about the PIA process, which doesn't seem satisfactory to me.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Well, the final version of the PIA is to be published by the end of this month. Tomorrow's meeting will, apparently, contribute to the process. We have already been warned that we will not like all the PIA's conclusions but will embrace some. I assume this means we're not likely to like all that might be concluded as it wouldn't be proper for conclusions to precede the evidence

well it worked for these guys


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1iBbBL1040&NR=1

i changed it for this one ,FAR better, late to their appearance..

[Bonglet]

I would like a couple of technical questions asked by anyone going.

1. Will the device in such place have an impact on latency on the network due to extra packets been sent back.

2. Will there be any sort of technical support paid for by phorm for the isp's involved if there device affects the network as you give the device to the isp's as a gift so the device then belongs to the isp so they can get around the privacy bit by altering T&C accordingly.

3. how does the device match up your ip with an random number is this not associated profilling which makes the whole anonymous question a blatent lie as in that randomly generated number gets associated with X customers ip address.

4. Where does this collected data get sent for profiling (which also means where does the whole process go from start to finish everyone involved in looking at it and any backups the device stores or makes)?

5. have phorm any plans to expand the spyware device (once its green lighted) into doing more than just serving ads in the future.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by 80/20Thinking

Oh, and as for the person who compared me to George Best. Yes, well, maybe given the developments in the world now you should consider whether sometimes I too wake up after half a pointless lifetime and also ask "where did it all go wrong Simon".

Sorry 'bout that Simon .

Today's meeting will be interesting.

Originally Posted by popper

well it worked for these guys


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1iBbBL1040&NR=1

i changed it for this one ,FAR better, late to their appearance..

I didn't expec......

[roadrunner69]

Hope you make it today Alexander

Good Luck to everyone going......Keep Calm but Give 'em Hell

[amateria]

Originally Posted by 80/20Thinking

Hi all,

Apologies for the silence. I've been dealing (ironically enough) with another RIPA issue - local authorities abusing the covert surveillance provisions of the Act.

Is that work on behalf of yourself, PI or 80/20? If your non-80/20 activities are preventing you from conducting a proper PIA process, and in particular a proper consultation, then is it right for you to continue with this PIA engagement - cannot a colleague take it over for you, or provide you with more support? I am not sure it is the interests either of your client or stakeholders (or you) for you to be too thinly spread.

[80/20Thinking]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Sorry 'bout that Simon .
.

---------- Post added at 01:13 ---------- Previous post was at 00:56 ----------

This is probably the most important point I will ever make on the issue of "consultation". Ready?

You all have quite properly made your voices heard. Now there is an expectation that tomorrow's meeting will reflect that nationwide anger and frustration. That's the way politics and social reform have worked for some thousands of years. Whether from the soapbox or the valve radio, Personal anger needs to reflect in a public display.

We are reliably informed that Cannel 4 news will be filming the event. There will be quite a few journalists present. Will they witness a revolt? Hundreds of angry consumers demanding the return of their rights?

Here's the reality. 52 people have signed up for tomorrow. Sure, some people will come without letting us know, but still more simply won't show. We've organised dozens of these meetings with the same dynamics for each.

52. Amazing. And half of those are industry or media. Yes, I want a consultation, but it takes more than one party to make that happen.

[Bonglet]

Lol classic post popper ill edit the beggining of that python for todays readers .

In the early years of the 21st century.
To combat the rising tide of People beliving they had privacy online, the isp's gave Kent Ertugrul of Phorm leave to move without let or hindrance throughout the land, in a reign of violence, terror and torture that makes a smashing profit.
This Was PHORM.

[popper]

:welcome Bobcat.

Originally Posted by Bobcat

Hi All.
I'm actually a BT customer but their threads have all but died so I hope you won't mind if I post here occasionally if/when I see something which might be of interest.
Viz: I Googled "Webwise" and this URL http://www.webwise.com/ only shows BT and Talk Talk as Webwise users. No mention of VM. Interesting? Or have I made a boo-boo on my first post.

all are welcome here, its not just a cable board, and many people here use DSL and other forms of connection.

no you didnt make a boo-boo, its been pointed out here way back (it is the longest running Phorm thread on the net after all) that VM asked them to remove the information.
if you see anything not mentioned, then post away , it all helps in collecting the information required....

[JackSon]

Originally Posted by 80/20Thinking

52. Amazing. And half of those are industry or media. Yes, I want a consultation, but it takes more than one party to make that happen.

If you want the crowds I think there is a lot to be said for the inclusion of free sandwiches or a free hat

In seriousness though, I do hope that quality makes up for the lack of quantity and that all present do justice to themselves - we can ask no more. I wish you all the best of luck, and that is you included as well, Simon

[Pasanonic]

Originally Posted by 80/20Thinking

---------- Post added at 01:13 ---------- Previous post was at 00:56 ----------

This is probably the most important point I will ever make on the issue of "consultation". Ready?

You all have quite properly made your voices heard. Now there is an expectation that tomorrow's meeting will reflect that nationwide anger and frustration. That's the way politics and social reform have worked for some thousands of years. Whether from the soapbox or the valve radio, Personal anger needs to reflect in a public display.

We are reliably informed that Cannel 4 news will be filming the event. There will be quite a few journalists present. Will they witness a revolt? Hundreds of angry consumers demanding the return of their rights?

Here's the reality. 52 people have signed up for tomorrow. Sure, some people will come without letting us know, but still more simply won't show. We've organised dozens of these meetings with the same dynamics for each.

52. Amazing. And half of those are industry or media. Yes, I want a consultation, but it takes more than one party to make that happen.

Hi again Simon.

I just can't let it go

I'm aware of your meaning behind the end of your post and maybe a little dismayed there will be no more people involved but surely it does not matter as long as we are represented by people with the academic know how to obtain the required answers from the panel? I was not aware that we were to stage an opposition revolt. I've said before I think that it would be a poor representation of ourselves to stage a public protestation in the manner of, say, fathers for justice, as it would make our cause look a little ridiculous from the outset.

I am glad that just 1 person is there who has all the facts and given the opportunity to speak will gain some answers. What these answers will be remains to be seen.

I personally would have hoped to be there but my work keeps me in Manchester that day but this personally gives me a great opportunity to hear what Hugo Drayton has to say to the industry at the Manchester Digital meeting. I'll find it £41 well spent ( I expect I'll spend more but I like a drink after these things )

When we have more answers and more importantly the results of a properly conducted PIA that has addressed and debated all of the issues with concerned stakeholders then we might know better how to organise a more vocal and public protestation.

Don't you think? Or would you have us behave like furtive theorists so that we might undermine our cause by looking foolish?


Craig.

[Bonglet]

Most of the average users cant be expected to make it or pay for the cost of travelling there to express there concerns simon we as people typically rely on the media or watchdogs to pick this up and ask said questions when we cannot make it (which they dont).

Given the fact that i would say that 85-90% of internet users who use the isp's where this might get implemented dont even know about this in any sort of detail at the minute will be affected how can you have a proper consultation where no one knows about the issue at hand or the impact it will bring, most of us more informed users have to revert to blogs or some paid for pr company to spout it out we dont have expendable finances to fight or spend on pr.

[popper]

Originally Posted by 80/20Thinking

---------- Post added at 01:13 ---------- Previous post was at 00:56 ----------

This is probably the most important point I will ever make on the issue of "consultation". Ready?

You all have quite properly made your voices heard. Now there is an expectation that tomorrow's meeting will reflect that nationwide anger and frustration. That's the way politics and social reform have worked for some thousands of years. Whether from the soapbox or the valve radio, Personal anger needs to reflect in a public display.

We are reliably informed that Cannel 4 news will be filming the event. There will be quite a few journalists present. Will they witness a revolt? Hundreds of angry consumers demanding the return of their rights?

Here's the reality. 52 people have signed up for tomorrow. Sure, some people will come without letting us know, but still more simply won't show. We've organised dozens of these meetings with the same dynamics for each.

52. Amazing. And half of those are industry or media. Yes, I want a consultation, but it takes more than one party to make that happen.

well you cant say i didnt tell you , you should have ,or perhaps you still might, theres time yet, forget the 16th century townhall meeting style, and instead draged this into the 21st century wireless interweb live streamed meeting place style.

as requested by the Cable Forum membership

all the tech and tech help you require is right there on the london campus and in the room is it not?

after all, these web interception for profit PIA projects are regarding every single individual stakeholders that is web connected, the perfect match, it's not rocket science.