How much can you dl

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by Zeph

When you pay for 10 gallons of petrol you expect to get 10 gallons of petrol and for it to get you as far as it should?

Here's a better analogy for you!

I bought a car that has a top speed of 120mph, I can only do 30 in cities and 70 on the motorway, I WANT MY MONEY BACK THIS ISN'T FAIR!

LOL

[Impz2002]

Originally Posted by colin-bennett

We are the silent majority.
You are the reason for traffic shaping.
HOPE THAT CLEAR ????

I'm sorry but if there was a cap on the service i would stick to it. The fact of the matter is i pay for an unlimited product and i will use it as such. I don't care if you are traffic shaped, or if you think it is users like me who cause it as the people to blame are VM. they implemented traffic shaping as a way of managing thier network without upgrading. Do you stay at home when the roads are busy to make sure someone else gets where they are going that little bit faster ? i think not !

VM's network dosnt have the capacity to support thier BB tiers properly and that isnt the user's fault its VM's.

and as you said , I HOPE THAT CLEAR !!!

Impz

[KillswitchEdge]

Originally Posted by TheDon

Here's a better analogy for you!

I bought a car that has a top speed of 120mph, I can only do 30 in cities and 70 on the motorway, I WANT MY MONEY BACK THIS ISN'T FAIR!

Actually that's another flawed analogy.

A proper one would be:

"Why use an elephant gun to shoot mice?"

I love all these self-righteous people who look down on those of us who download and use our internet connections to their fullest extent, completely ignoring the fact that everyones tastes and usage is tailored to their needs and their desires, and that not everything is a 700mb file.

Blu-ray movies are 15gb+ for a single movie, and that's just one example of an extremely high file size for an extremely small amount of content. Games vary these days between 2gb and 14gb depending on format and content, and while downloading all of this (well, almost all of this) is illegal under British law, people still do it.

The government knows that people are downloading illegally, the ISPs know that their customers are downloading illegally and the people know that they're downloading illegally, yet nobody does a damn thing. In fact, the government is so adamant on being a "High Tech Britain" that they're imploring with the ISPs to provide faster internet connections, the ISPs are competing for customers by offering higher speeds and the people are lapping it up because in the end "time is money" and people always want the fastest, shiniest things.

The simple fact is that none of us residential customers really need a connection faster than 1mb if we're to only use the Internet in legal ways. Sure there's Linux distributables and legal downloads from iTunes and so-on and so-forth, but the amount of people that download from Itunes in no way, shape or form matches the amount of people that download illegally.

1mb would do everyone fine for web browsing, small file downloads (90kb/s is a great speed for small files, let alone it's like 25x faster than what 56k was able to provide) and gaming, but then the ISPs would have to think of other ways to draw in customers.

Anyway I got way off topic there. As for the tool who said high downloaders are the reason for STM, you're wrong.

STM was introduced under the guise of it being necessary due to downloaders, but the simple fact is that VM miscalculated the stability of their UBRs under high load due to oversubscribing, and they're blaming people who use their rightful amount of bandwidth instead of their own inadequacies and the failings of their technology.

Sure, high downloaders don't help, but they certainly arent entirely responsible for the current state of VM's network. That's what's called "shifting the blame".

[Richy99]

Originally Posted by Gary L

What speed did you decide to go with from what was offered to you?

i went for 20meg because when i want something i want it as fast as possible not to download the whole of the giganews' hard drives because i'm paying for an internet connction

[dev]

Originally Posted by KillswitchEdge

<snip>
STM was introduced under the guise of it being necessary due to downloaders, but the simple fact is that VM miscalculated the stability of their UBRs under high load due to oversubscribing, and they're blaming people who use their rightful amount of bandwidth instead of their own inadequacies and the failings of their technology.
<snip>

rightful amount? ok, so you're on 20mbit with a contention ratio of 20:1, you have a "right" to 1mbit then. you don't have a right to 20mbit, the server has no SLA nor does it have a 1:1 contention. if you want to have a right to have 20mbit get a leased line, or a business line with an SLA.

something for heavy downloaders to think about: if VM *only* had heavy downloaders (500gb+/month) on it's network, do you think they would survive with every customer using more traffic than £37 would give them? The people barely downloading at all allow VM to make a profit on them to cover the losses on people downloading a lot. Now if the heavy downloaders want the attitude of 'i shall use 20mb 24/7' you'll push lower usage users away, VM profit down and in comes caps to stem the losses.

last point, those people saying people only have the 20mb tier to download more, why should that be the case? do people drive faster cars to drive more or to get to the next place quicker?

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by KillswitchEdge

Actually that's another flawed analogy.

A proper one would be:

"Why use an elephant gun to shoot mice?"

Please explain how it's flawed.
I love the car analogy because it has so many similarities with networking, sure your car can go that fast, if it has the right road to do it on, but in the real world you're faced with conjestion that slows it down at peak times as roads have contention, you don't have your own private road. The road infrastructure is very similar to a network, and sure you can go from city to city via a motorway, but some suburbs mean you have to go on a 30m/hr road rather than 70, and at busy times you're not going to be doing 70 on a motorway because so many others are using it.

The elephant gun one is definitely flawed though, as we're not all shooting mice. Some people need the fast speed not because they want to transfer alot of data, but because what they do transfer they need to do quickly. On the occassions I get to work from home I often have to download files that I needed 5 minutes ago, they aren't that big, but any delay in waiting for them is critical.

Originally Posted by KillswitchEdge

The simple fact is that none of us residential customers really need a connection faster than 1mb if we're to only use the Internet in legal ways.

Vastly wrong.
I can easily max out 20meg for several hours a day using the internet for legal means alone.
You quote video and games, and imply the only time you'll be downloading these is illegal warez, well, welcome to the world of digital distribution.
I've bought a hell of alot of games on steam, some of them clock in at over 6gb. Downloaded on a 20mb connection that's 40mins, on a 1mb? 14 hours. I know which one I prefere.
Digital distribution is starting to be used for movies as well, that means your 14gb movie will beable to be legitimately downloaded as well. On 1mb you're talking what, nearly a day and half? Whereas on 20mb you could stream it.

To think that you can use the internet legally to it's fullest with only 1mb is very shortsighted, not everyone just logs in and checks their emails and browses a few web pages.

[stewlewis]

This is not another download legalities thread. I couldn't care less.

The point I was trying to make is just how much stuff in downloaded that is never listened to, watched, played or installed on a PC? Why max out the connection for the sake of it? Can anyone give us a breakdown of their 700GB a month habit?

Is it just a collecting obsession? To have more than the next kid? Is "my massive amount of data is bigger than your massive amount of data" the new 12" record collection to show off with? It's pretty pointless as this data can always be had for pretty much free.

As for getting your moneys worth, 2 films, 4 albums, a Blue Ray film/game = there's your £40. Do any of the 'heavy downloaders' complain about their speed?

I'm not knocking VM or the 'heavy downloaders', I just can't help feeling a lot of the problems are due to bandwidth being used for no decent reason. We'd all like a faster connection, for the stuff we want to be delivered faster not because we just want more stuff.

well if its a hd show that 1Gb in itself they might just download shows and then watch them and delete or could be a few linux distros

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Impz2002

The fact of the matter is i pay for an unlimited product and i will use it as such. I don't care if you are traffic shaped, or if you think it is users like me who cause it as the people to blame are VM. they implemented traffic shaping as a way of managing thier network without upgrading. Do you stay at home when the roads are busy to make sure someone else gets where they are going that little bit faster ? i think not !

VM's network dosnt have the capacity to support thier BB tiers properly and that isnt the user's fault its VM's.

and as you said , I HOPE THAT CLEAR !!!

Impz

[stewlewis]

Originally Posted by darthlinux

well if its a hd show that 1Gb in itself they might just download shows and then watch them and delete or could be a few linux distros

Sure but some folks are talking 5/7/900GB a month. Thats a lot of shows even in HD, and a fair few LInux distros to reinstall each month.

I just can't get my head around the need for this much data?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Richy99

i went for 20meg because when i want something i want it as fast as possible not to download the whole of the giganews' hard drives because i'm paying for an internet connction

I think you are falling into the trap of what VM want you to believe the reason why STM is for

---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

Originally Posted by stewlewis

Sure but some folks are talking 5/7/900GB a month. Thats a lot of shows even in HD, and a fair few LInux distros to reinstall each month.

I just can't get my head around the need for this much data?

When my mate told me he has sex 7 times a day, I couldn't get my head around that either. why can't he have sex just once or twice a year like normal people?!

[stewlewis]

Originally Posted by Impz2002

Do you stay at home when the roads are busy to make sure someone else gets where they are going that little bit faster ? i think not !

Impz

No but then I don't expect everyone to move over so I can force my way along the road at 155mph, cus thats what my car (PC) can do, and afterall the petrol company (ISP) say their fuel should allow my engine (NW connection) to do that, and I pay my tax for the upkeep of the roads (network) so I should, and I am, entitled to do that, and while I'm at it I want all that I'm promised so that'll be 3 lanes of the motorway to allow me to do 155mph unhindered, on any road I pay tax for anywhere whenever I want to.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by stewlewis

No but then I don't expect everyone to move over so I can force my way along the road at 155mph, cus thats what my car (PC) can do, and afterall the petrol company (ISP) say their fuel should allow my engine (NW connection) to do that, and I pay my tax for the upkeep of the roads (network) so I should, and I am, entitled to do that, and while I'm at it I want all that I'm promised so that'll be 3 lanes of the motorway to allow me to do 155mph unhindered, on any road I pay tax for anywhere whenever I want to.

LOL enough of these. some are just plain stupid and have no relevance to a cable broadband connection whatsoever.

[stewlewis]

When my mate told me he has sex 7 times a day, I couldn't get my head around that either. why can't he have sex just once or twice a year like normal people?!

Yeah but he's making use of the 'data' if the 7 'mp3s' are 'listened too' each day.

Just cus he's subscribed to unlimited monthly ladies of the night doesn't mean he has to collect every one that he can and save them in his garage but never use their services. They will always be on streets when he needs them. Leave some for other casual subscribers, we all don't want dry barren streets when we feel the need to get some 'data'.

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

LOL enough of these. some are just plain stupid and have no relevance to a cable broadband connection whatsoever.

You're wrong dude, it's the women that are causing all the traffic problems (sending loving friendship angel chain emails to everyone).

And aside from that, the motorways would be great if all the trucks didn't do any heavy downloading until nighttime hours. Perhaps it's be like the M6 toll, you have to pay but you won't get any trucks on there.