20mb v's 50mb..............???? - Page 3

05-12-2007, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsproc

The 50mbit that VM are trialling does not use DOCSIS 3, the cable has not been upgraded for that yet.

Instead its the result of aggrigating a number of connections together, similar to what you could do on a modem and a number of lines.

Your wrong.

Preston area where the trial was run has analogue switched off and indeed is running a docsis3 network.

They are not using docsis1 for 50mbit rollout.

05-12-2007, 19:23

as far as I am aware diocsis 1.0 cnt handle 50Mb

slowcoach · 05-12-2007, 21:04

I thought VM was using some Arris cludge which will allow a simple upgrade to DOCSIS 3 later.

lsproc · 05-12-2007, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowcoach

I thought VM was using some Arris cludge which will allow a simple upgrade to DOCSIS 3 later.

Doubt it, wouldnt it cost more verses just migrating?

05-12-2007, 22:49

as I said before if 50Mb are using 50Mb now the netowrk has to be docsis 3.0 simple docsis 1.0 will not support it

TUZZY · 05-12-2007, 22:51

MAYBE THEY SHOULD USE DOCSIS3 NOW AND GIVE US LOT ON 20meg THE SPEED AS ADVERTISED.

KillswitchEdge · 06-12-2007, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUZZY

MAYBE THEY SHOULD USE DOCSIS3 NOW AND GIVE US LOT ON 20meg THE SPEED AS ADVERTISED.

"I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!"
"LOUD NOISES!"

Seriously, lose the caps :P

Anyway, if the 50Mb uses DOCSIS3, I'm all for it, if it doesn't, fuhgeddabowdit!

dev · 06-12-2007, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUZZY

MAYBE THEY SHOULD USE DOCSIS3 NOW AND GIVE US LOT ON 20meg THE SPEED AS ADVERTISED.

i'm not sure if you know this or not, but things costs M O N E Y, something virgin don't have a lot of. 20mb doesn't need docsis3 and so there is no point in upgrading the network to support docsis3 if it is not required.

popper · 06-12-2007, 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthlinux

I would like to see what 50Mb is like newsgroup are gonna get hammered and its gonna be great with no stm even 20mb with no stm will be great shame I dont use newgroups

im suprised that the payed for news users dont already run something like Hamster local news sever on one of your LAN machines to collect up all your prefered binary sections and share the content with other VM/LAN users to save your/their external bandwidth.... AND increase full retension for selected files/parts.

http://www.tglsoft.de/freeware_hamster.html
http://www.elfden.co.uk/hamster/conf.htm
http://www.spampal.org/usermanual/se...r/hamster.html
http://search.virginmedia.com/result...ster+server&cr=

with the extra upload rate that the implyed 50Mbit seems to provide, shareing/peering with other VM Hamster users seems like a very good option for everyone to try setting up here...

hell, you could even collate each users Hamster so that each of you get one or two binary sections each from the payed for servers and redistribute it inside the VM network for free as its intended to be, and also vastly improve retention.

---------- Post added at 01:37 ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richy99

which is why its on a completely different network structure to the existing delivery

you have to be careful with your words or risk more confusion.

in effect its more akin to a new virtual network not a totally new seperate network thats using brand new kit and cable on the end to end network.

but none the less, it does in effect keep it somewhat seperate other than potential harmonic and related interference etc.

think of all the broadband and even cable TV everyones using right now,as seperate pipes that are infact using seperate radio frequences.

all the cable companys are doing is injecting another freq into the same existing wires and pulling it off at the other end.

in the case of Docsis3, they are infact taking more than one of these fixed new pipes/freqs and pushing the IP data into more than one at a time ,the so called 'Bonded Network Channel', and these are pulled off the other end and re-combined to look like the original as it gets to your end user machine, hence you NEED a new cable modem to re-assemble the bonded/split feed at your end.

BIG-IP-DATA<=>split-into-4-bits(8 would have been better)<=>pushed-into-the-new-freqs<=>over-web_IP-network<=>Banded-user-Docsis3-modem<=>re-combine-BIG-IP-DATA<=>push-out-to-Device/User-OS.

---------- Post added at 01:59 ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsproc

The 50mbit that VM are trialling does not use DOCSIS 3, the cable has not been upgraded for that yet.

Instead its the result of aggrigating a number of connections together, similar to what you could do on a modem and a number of lines.

if you take the time to read up on the spac etc, its does , its refered to as Pre-Docsis, AKA at one time called Docsis2.0B.

by cable not being upgraded, (assume you have read some parts of the spec and missunderstud it?)doesnt mean put in new cable as such although they could.

it means they havent yet put the new kit in all the HeadEnds that will inject some new freqs into the plant cable, that then allow the so called Bonding of several channels/freqs, your so called aggrigated/combined fixed freq connections, or signed the contract for the end user Off the shelf (Pre-)Docsis 3.0 to get the End to End aggrigation.

Bonding is a very good way to increase your throughput, even for end users and a few wireless APs can be made to work, but it must be configured at BOTH ENDS of the LAN and its not currently made easy for the users, but possible today.

hokkers999 · 06-12-2007, 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraxData

[snip]

50Mbit will be on docsis3, essentially a completely different network, it wont affect other tiers at all, infact it will relieve stress on the current docsis1 network.

Great, then in that case they will be upgrading all users for free then won't they, after all it will prevent them from having to invest in the existing network.

No free upgrade? Then I'll stay and hammer the existing infrastructure...

popper · 06-12-2007, 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowcoach

I thought VM was using some Arris cludge which will allow a simple upgrade to DOCSIS 3 later.

iv never seen mentioned what full kit they used, or read it here so far, other than Arris being mentioned , but i assume that kit was only Bronze enabled as is was/is most Pre-Docsis3.0 (aka Wave 56)kit right now.

even so, a single upload channel of the Pre-DOCSIS3 will still give you a very good upload rate IF CM see fit to stop messing around and increase the ratio to a reasonable, or far better a top UK ISP setting level (and get good PR, for once deserved), and by that i mean 5Mbit/s+ at the VERY least for upload per end user, on the 50Mbit/s package the day it arrives in your area, and you have the kit installed and activated.

Arris could do with a big boost as it seems they are/have as of 1H07 only 3.1% of the world market...
------------------------------------------------
Bronze, will test against downstream channel bonding and IPv6.

Silver, will add upstream channel bonding and the spec's Advanced Encryption System (AES).

and full...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10...l#post34443467

06-12-2007, 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokkers999

Great, then in that case they will be upgrading all users for free then won't they, after all it will prevent them from having to invest in the existing network.

No free upgrade? Then I'll stay and hammer the existing infrastructure...

Dont be stupid, why does everyone expect something for free

You want something, you have to pay for it, that's how the world works.

popper · 06-12-2007, 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthlinux

as far as I am aware docsis 1.0 cant handle 50Mb

i assume you refer to the download rate, and thats true, its way above the official DOCSIS1.0 spec.

however, IF VM put inplace the required amount for longer term growth required of Pre-DOCSIS3.0 kit and its manatory IP Multicasting/IPv6 etc protocols to the end user and back, and they move much of the congested 20Mbit/s users to it as a releaf valve as it were.

then they could also change much of the old docsis1.0 kit over to the highest QAM and so also easly increase the download rates to 30Mbit/s and the far more important (for the medium/longer term UK future)upload rates to 8Mbit on the old kit without a problem for your average user, these rates are still well below the MAX (Euro-)docsis1.0 spec kit VM are currently using today.

but again, that mean reseging the UBRs to take less end users and the penny pushers wont like that idea, even if it will massivly increase new customer uptake and fare profits if its managed right this time around.

---------- Post added at 03:13 ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraxData

Dont be stupid, why does everyone expect something for free

You want something, you have to pay for it, that's how the world works.

not everyone does, however I do expect to be able to OFFICIALLY get more than one single CM connection on my end user account sometime soon.

as it stands right now on the exC&W network , many people can AND DO use their STBs internal CM for their one allowed BB today, but the VM accounts department wont officially allow more than one single BB connection.

even if you as an end user, want both the samsung STBs fully powered and connected to CM UBR, and a stand alone CM at the same time, at the same address, on the one single account,they say you cant, now thats throwing masses of potential extra cash away and they know it.

id happly take 2 or even perhaps 3 BB connections in place of the 3 STBs for TV allowed on the single account we can have installed today, but we cant have more than one BB connection

TUZZY · 06-12-2007, 10:24

I think they should get the 20mb service sorted first. The system is obviously crap to give many users below 1 mb d/load speeds after dark. And to say they have no money!!!! - well people pay Â£30+ for a 20mb service and thats what they should have. Maybe 50mb will give us all 5mb in the end. Its what the 20mb service does. It gives u 10 percent of the advertised speed after 6pm. VM need to stop bull**itting about contention isnt something cable suffers from. ha ha! I and others were promised at signup that very comment and look now.... lucky anyone gets what they pay for.....

deed02392 · 06-12-2007, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraxData

Dont be stupid, why does everyone expect something for free

You want something, you have to pay for it, that's how the world works.

So many of us are paying for what we 'want' but aren't getting it... how about a little reimbursement on Virgin's side?