VM billing/theft

[Northeast_user]

My first thread here was about how happy I was that VM had sorted my 20MB broadband out and that they had assured me that I would be credited 1 months free broadband from my next bill and that any charges made calling their tech support would be refunded. So I recieved my bill on Friday. 37 pound will be removed from my account on a contract of 20meg broadband for 23.55. I don't think annoyed is the correct word. So I checked my October bank statement and they had taken 39.70 from my account.
Is there anyone that I can report this to as in my eye's this is theift by direct debit and I am fuming. All this after I was assured and told that all this had been sorted out. I've tried to be pleasant to the VM call center staff up untill now. I don't like being LIED to by a company who promises gold while they are [Admin Edit:Inappropriate Language removed] on your back.

[Help!!!]

Well I think the best was is to call them tomorrow, Fully explaining the situation, please don't be rude with them as Its not the person on the phones fault they are just doing a job, I have found the nicer you be the more they want to help.

[Impz2002]

Yeah,

Give CS a call tommorrow but dont loose your head with the person as they are just doing thier job and if you are rude you are far less likely to have your problem addressed and sorted properly.

I know that VM's billing systems are not up to scratch as a simlar thing has happened to me before.

I hope you get things sorted easily.

Impz

[Northeast_user]

Thanks for the replies. as I said I do try to be pleasant to the staff, but at the moment I am spending at least an hour ever time I call trying to get things sorted with them, I also do realise that it is not these people that are at fault, But atm the whole vm system seems to be totaly fragmented. And i think this needs to sorted out p.d.q. As I for one am getting to the stage where im just going to cancel the direct debit and tell them where they can shove their 12 month contract.

[darthlinux]

Understand ur annoyed but cancelling the direct debit will only cause more trouble for yourself

[Ernie_C]

Originally Posted by Northeast_user

....im just going to cancel the direct debit and tell them where they can shove their 12 month contract.

Do not do that - it will just lead to much more stress than you are getting now.

Letters from debt collection companies, burly men at your door demanding your debt, .......

[bonzoe]

Try taking it up with your bank under DD Guarantee, they have for starters taken money not on your bill. Perhaps if the bank get involved VM will do something, or is that a vain hope?

Good luck.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Ernie_C

Do not do that - it will just lead to much more stress than you are getting now.

Letters from debt collection companies, burly men at your door demanding your debt, .......

The latter are just threats and not possible without a court order.

---------- Post added at 14:30 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

Originally Posted by Northeast_user

37 pound will be removed from my account on a contract of 20meg broadband for 23.55. I don't think annoyed is the correct word. So I checked my October bank statement and they had taken 39.70 from my account.

So am I right in understanding that the bill said 23.55 yet they took 39.70 (are you sure that was not the previous months bill)? Then take it up under the DD guarantee with the bank. Otherwise it is a CS headache.

[Northeast_user]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

The latter are just threats and not possible without a court order.

---------- Post added at 14:30 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

So am I right in understanding that the bill said 23.55 yet they took 39.70 (are you sure that was not the previous months bill)? Then take it up under the DD guarantee with the bank. Otherwise it is a CS headache.

The "contract" (im not even sure that a contract can be made without a signature) was made via telephone, As I've said in earlier threads Im a long term customer of VM and just happened to see their offer on their website. I was paying 24.99 for the 4MB BB. But since asking to be upgraded to 20MB they seem to think they have carte blanche as to how much they are removing from my account, And I have not given permissions to my bank that this company can take as little or as much (ie a bill that is going to rise and fall) on that DD.

Added: No sorry the bill said 39.70 then this month 37.00.

[piggy]

i would be more concernd about someone [Admin Edit:Inappropriate Language removed] on my back than the money but thats just me.

[MistaP]

As far as i am aware, a contract is only ever made with a signature from both parties and something in black and white.

Anything else can be taken as verbal slander and thrown out in a court. From what i can remember of studying law
Basically, he said, she said etc etc. The court just throws it out as there isn't enough proof.

I bet very few of us are actually in a contract. And if anyone is threatened about having to pay the remainder of a "contract" and you know you didn't sign anything (like me), then let them take you to court.

[piggy]

Originally Posted by MistaP

As far as i am aware, a contract is only ever made with a signature from both parties and something in black and white.

Anything else can be taken as verbal slander and thrown out in a court. From what i can remember of studying law
Basically, he said, she said etc etc. The court just throws it out as there isn't enough proof.

I bet very few of us are actually in a contract. And if anyone is threatened about having to pay the remainder of a "contract" and you know you didn't sign anything (like me), then let them take you to court.

your wrong http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...mId=1075385183

Originally Posted by Northeast_user

Added: No sorry the bill said 39.70 then this month 37.00.

How can it be theft, When Virgin have sent you a bill for £39.70 and then took £39.70. Fair enouth theres a billing mistake that needs to be sorted, but I think calling it theft is a little dramatic. I thought the defination of theft was taking something without there permission. They have sent you a bill telling you how much they plan to take and then after a set period of time (which has been pre agreed when you set up the DD) taken that amount, Its also your responsibility to check the bill when you recive them, which is why they leave at least a week normally before they take the amount to correct any mistakes.

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------

Originally Posted by MistaP

As far as i am aware, a contract is only ever made with a signature from both parties and something in black and white.

Anything else can be taken as verbal slander and thrown out in a court. From what i can remember of studying law
Basically, he said, she said etc etc. The court just throws it out as there isn't enough proof.

I bet very few of us are actually in a contract. And if anyone is threatened about having to pay the remainder of a "contract" and you know you didn't sign anything (like me), then let them take you to court.

Well whats a Verbal Contract then, I always thought that a verbal contract was actually more legally binding than a written one. Just that obviouly proving it is more diffucult in a court of law, which is why most telesales companies record the calls.

[Northeast_user]

Originally Posted by Akia

How can it be theft, When Virgin have sent you a bill for £39.70 and then took £39.70. Fair enouth theres a billing mistake that needs to be sorted, but I think calling it theft is a little dramatic. I thought the defination of theft was taking something without there permission. They have sent you a bill telling you how much they plan to take and then after a set period of time (which has been pre agreed when you set up the DD) taken that amount, Its also your responsibility to check the bill when you recive them, which is why they leave at least a week normally before they take the amount to correct any mistakes.

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------



Well whats a Verbal Contract then, I always thought that a verbal contract was actually more legally binding than a written one. Just that obviouly proving it is more diffucult in a court of law, which is why most telesales companies record the calls.

LMAO You're really telling me that these are "mistakes" Signing a person up for 20Meg BB at 23.50 a month, then giving them 2 Meg BB for two months by "mistake", Then telling this person that they will be given 1 months free BB for their :mistake" then removing 39.70 from the account by "mistake*. Then the next month removing 37.00 on a 23.50 bill by "mistake".
If VM are making these "mistakes" on a daily basis they must be bloody rolling in it.
I really can't wait for my phone bill to see how much they are going to charge me (Oops sorry make a mistake) on the bills they've promised to refund on my hours with tech support.

[MistaP]

Originally Posted by piggy

your wrong http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...mId=1075385183

Well, no, i'm not.
That link you've posted is only a link that outlines the 'Distance selling regulations', which in a nut-shell protects consumers in transactions that involve distance. Nothing to do with contracts in the majority of it and certainly nothing outling the very definition of a "contract".

If the OP hasn't been asked to sign a contract, then he isn't in one. And a company/individual can not force anyone to hand over money on the basis of a non existance contract.

A contract as i understand it is a set of terms, in writing, both parties agree to and sign for. Unless there are some new laws that over-turn the hundred year old contract laws then, this is still contract law.

I didn't study too much on it, but i've never come across anything to suggest otherwise.

Originally Posted by Akia

Well whats a Verbal Contract then, I always thought that a verbal contract was actually more legally binding than a written one. Just that obviouly proving it is more diffucult in a court of law, which is why most telesales companies record the calls.

...well if its harder to prove, then how can it be more legally binding?? I think you've answered your own sceptisim in that a verbal contract is barely even a contract to be honest. A written one definitely is.
Do you think when they sign the new England manage it will all be done by word of mouth or verbal contract? Of course not, it'll all be written down.


Furthermore, just found this link:
http://www.gillhams.com/articles/325.cfm

All those in doubt should read the difference. If the OP hasn't signed anything, then he could leave tomorrow and cancel his Direct Debts, and no-one could stop him. Obviously the best thing is to talk with VM and cancel that way.