Wondering why peak-time speeds are *REALLY* so bad?

red502 · 13-09-2007, 03:00

It appears that since NTL took over Blueyonder and has been thrown together with Virgin's ADSL service, they have reconfigured their peering to the U.S.A, in order to cut costs.

This would be why peak time speeds to some servers is far worse than 6 months ago, even before any official "traffic management" kicks-in.

This is an extremely sly method for cutting bandwidth usage. It particularly affects applications like bittorrent and connections to "smaller" US websites.

The end user assumes that a slowdown is due to overloading at the server end, i.e. too many global users trying to access Youtube, so Youtube's server cannot cope...

In fact, it is often because Virgin's link and that of their agents to a particular part of the web has been squeezed.

Virgin/NTL own very little transatlantic bandwidth (according to wiki). They buy the majority of this bandwidth from other suppliers.

Although there is almost unlimited transatlantic bandwidth available, Virgin doesn't like paying for it. This has a knock-on effect, cutting bandwidth use at all points on the network and is obviously a win-win for Virgin.

Please see this very informative post by a Newsgroup supplier (Megabitz) over at Slyck.com:

http://slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.ph...hilit=#p429597

quote: "the problems with Virgin revolve around a problem where they seem to have aggregated the inbound for several sub-ISP's onto an already busy connection to the US, which has caused it to become flooded during peak times"

chickendippers · 13-09-2007, 09:30

Yes, I am unable to download from my servers in the US at more than 40K...extremely annoying. When I transfer files between my US and UK servers (obviously avoiding anything VM related) they achieve over 5MB which is what I expect, clearly a problem with VM's peering.

Toto · 13-09-2007, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by red502

It appears that since NTL took over Blueyonder and has been thrown together with Virgin's ADSL service, they have reconfigured their peering to the U.S.A, in order to cut costs.

This would be why peak time speeds to some servers is far worse than 6 months ago, even before any official "traffic management" kicks-in.

This is an extremely sly method for cutting bandwidth usage. It particularly affects applications like bittorrent and connections to "smaller" US websites.

The end user assumes that a slowdown is due to overloading at the server end, i.e. too many global users trying to access Youtube, so Youtube's server cannot cope...

In fact, it is often because Virgin's link and that of their agents to a particular part of the web has been squeezed.

Virgin/NTL own very little transatlantic bandwidth (according to wiki). They buy the majority of this bandwidth from other suppliers.

Although there is almost unlimited transatlantic bandwidth available, Virgin doesn't like paying for it. This has a knock-on effect, cutting bandwidth use at all points on the network and is obviously a win-win for Virgin.

Please see this very informative post by a Newsgroup supplier (Megabitz) over at Slyck.com:

http://slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.ph...hilit=#p429597

quote: "the problems with Virgin revolve around a problem where they seem to have aggregated the inbound for several sub-ISP's onto an already busy connection to the US, which has caused it to become flooded during peak times"

I didn't find it that informative, one poster in particular said that Virgin had sacked all UK technical support in favour of offshoring.

Obviously there are issues, but the thread lacked any credible evidence that VM were being tight with their bandwidth purchasing deals to the US.

Comments from megabitz point the finger towards VM's peering connections in London, but I felt that it stopped short of totally blaming them because they didn't have sufficient evidence to back up their claims, which I think was a very mature thing to do.

That is not to say that its not VN's problem. You also have to respect megabitz up-front and honest response.

Impz2002 · 13-09-2007, 11:33

I think what you are saying is a bit of a generalisation.

If VM don't have the capacity to provide connections to US servers then why can i download from easynews or other US servers at full 20mb speeds ?

I think this issue relates more to over-subscribed UBR's and localised issues.

Impz

Toto · 13-09-2007, 11:40

Yes, there have to be local factors as well as the transatlantic ones.

Trybrow · 13-09-2007, 14:44

its getting terrible now. they really are doing something wrong. my browsing speed is slower than dial-up. i cant even get through to some website. this is intermittent so i know its their problem.

red502 · 13-09-2007, 19:12

As noted back on slyck:

"I wonder if Virgin went so far as to intentionally create this bottleneck to limit total throughput." ???

Before the merger, speeds to the US were always good, after they are intermittent. Speaks volumes as far as I'm concerned.

It was literally an overnight change for me and I am on UBR9 (liverpool) which is not overloaded.

slowcoach · 13-09-2007, 21:18

With no downloading today.
Max 4 Meg here tonight, tried Virgin, Europe (various), States, all exactly same crap speed. This happens regularly now every 2 or 3 days, on the other days I get 15 Meg during the curfew.
Must be VM trying to get a quart out of a pint pot.

chickendippers · 13-09-2007, 23:35

At this precise moment I am downloading from gamefiles and maxing out my connection at 20,000kBps - yet I have been unable to achieve the speeds I know my own servers are very capable of providing (and do in fact provide customers on other ISPs).

I can't see my particular ubr being a problem in this case.

darthlinux · 14-09-2007, 00:02

but if u can get the correct speed on vm servers might it be the us server that is your problem

14-09-2007, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthlinux

but if u can get the correct speed on vm servers might it be the us server that is your problem

Yea...it just so happens every US server has a problem and cant give out more than 10-30b/s (max i've seen from ANY us servers just lately is 50-70kb/s)

Cant even reach 1mb/s with 16 threads going.

Getting 2.5mb/s off european servers though, bit of an annoyance when my server is located in the US, with everyone getting great download speeds from it, except me

Edit, My ubr is not overloaded/oversubscribed, iget full speed everywhere else.

And before anyone says its me doing something wrong, my adsl 24mbit Be line maxes out from the same server, so its a VM issue.

Mick Fisher · 14-09-2007, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthlinux

but if u can get the correct speed on vm servers might it be the us server that is your problem

That's a possibility but almost a certainty is that the problem lies with the BUDGET routing solutions that have been employed for what seems like forever by this sinking ship organisation.
For instance, yesterday my outward connection to a certain destination was mainly provided via the exceedly DIRE Level3. Several routers appeared to be saturated and dropping packets. My inward connection was mainly via the equally dire Sprintlink who seemed to be in even worst shape than Level3. 30 connections could only get around 10meg at about midday.

Its just another way for VM to save money and limit bandwidth to the detriment of their subscribers surfing experience.

Toto · 14-09-2007, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraxData

Yea...it just so happens every US server has a problem

Do you mean every US news server or every server you download from in the US?

red502 · 14-09-2007, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick Fisher

For instance, yesterday my outward connection to a certain destination was mainly provided via the exceedly DIRE Level3. Several routers appeared to be saturated and dropping packets. My inward connection was mainly via the equally dire Sprintlink who seemed to be in even worst shape than Level3. 30 connections could only get around 10meg at about midday.

Its just another way for VM to save money and limit bandwidth to the detriment of their subscribers surfing experience.

Level3 is Virgin's primary partner for transatlantic AFAIK.

I noticed that at precisely midnight yesterday, presumably as *everyone* starts their scheduled downloads (to avoid STM), speeds took a nosedive.

By 2am all was back to normal...

Virgin are skanking us all! Even off-peak. I am seriously considering Be...

BTW, I download approx100gb per month on 20mb. I am not a P*SS TAKER and expect a minimum service level to the USA.

We demand more for our £37 (OR £27 as I'm paying)

We need to get an official statement from V re. their routing (won't happen I know) or some insiders in the industry to spill the beans -

A before and after comparison would be useful.

Uncle Peter · 15-09-2007, 00:35

Latency on connections via Level3 and Redbus seems to be particularly poor (not just to the States) but whether this is due to saturation, CoS/QoS or whatever other factors remains to be seen. I just wish it would get sorted once and for all because it's been a problem for as long as I can remember!