Traffic Shaping Affecting All Tiers

[Asha'man Jay]

So.

Anyone any ideas when they'll pull the 'unlimited' bullcrap from their advertising or should we all just go here.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_com...mplaints_form/

[mocara]

People need to be careful when complaining. I'm not saying there are no grounds for complaint, but if you aren't correct in your accusations, they will be ignored. So lets be clear: When you do 3Gig you are speed restricted. Many people here are putting it that 3Gig is your lot. It's not, it's just your lot at 10 or 20meg. Again, not saying no reason for complaint, but please make the complaint clear and trueful are you will just be assigned to the ignore folder.

[Asha'man Jay]

http://www.connectedinternet.co.uk/2...ce-speed-caps/

According to this, on L if you do 750mb you gonna get capped. So If I DL a couple of TV episodes (From channels I no longer get thanks to Virgin) or download a full patch for battlefield 2/eve online I'm going to be paying for a restricted service.

How long does it take to bust a 3gb cap anyway on a 10mb or 20mb connection?

VM are really doing their best to alienate their own customers.
All this so they can bang on about their 20Mb service. So much for looking after the customers you have.
From VM's site

"No download limits
Unlike some of our competitors, you get unlimited° downloads as a basic right so you can load up on music, films...whatever you're into."

Aye, load up. As long as your prepared to wait more than twice as long as you should.


:EDIT:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05...de_throttling/

[chamoan]

I keep hearing this 5% stuff, are VM saying they cannot handle 5% of there customers at the same time who want to use the potential of the service they are over paying for? I mean forget who's hoggin what, i think people are forgetting VM are openly admitting they cannot handle 5% of there customers, i find that absolutely shockin and VM should be embarassed and sort themselves with putting there hands in there pockets to take care of the problem, and not in ours for a increasingly poorer service.

The only good thing to come from this,(for me anyway) is my area always takes forever and a day to get upgraded, (about 7months from 4mb-10mb) its not even listed as when it might happen on VM's site, so i can download as much as i like still, altho i dont download much now.

NTL have shatterd virgins good reputation they are well known for, Branson will regret the day he ever got involved with NTL jokers.

"Virginonridiculous Broadband, we wont impose download limits like our rivals, or we will but we will just call it traffic shaping"

[Steve-o||[^]]

Originally Posted by Asha'man Jay

How long does it take to bust a 3gb cap anyway on a 10mb or 20mb connection?

10Mbit/s: ((((10/8)*60)*60)/1024) = 4.39GB which is for 1 hour of constant, theoretical downloading. so less than an hour!

20Mbit/s: just under 30mins of that same constant, theoretical downloading!





that is of course assuming I haven`t screwed my sums :P

[Asha'man Jay]

Originally Posted by Steve-o||[^]

10Mbit/s: ((((10/8)*60)*60)/1024) = 4.39GB which is for 1 hour of constant, theoretical downloading. so less than an hour!

20Mbit/s: just under 30mins of that same constant, theoretical downloading!

that is of course assuming I haven`t screwed my sums :P

Who in their right mind is gonna pay for an 10/20gb connection just to get a 5gb limit inside half an hour??

Christ, bring back NTL. GTF Branson.

[popper]

Originally Posted by CrC-3rr0r

@mojo
FreeBSE *shudders*

I do QoS myself so no need to educate me mate but am I not right in saying that we use QoS as in interim fix to the wider problem of the way that traffic is routed on the cable network ?

I mean on a fluid network asynchronous network transfers do not show signs of degradation the way it does on cable. You can test this out simply at home between 2 networked machined.

your thinking routing were 'traffic queue prioritising' is the key to most pro kit, however keeping that in mind the reason your seeing this effect CrC is probably because as you might expect the original finantial model is (20/1?)contended and download centric at the expense of the ISP changable upload software setting ( or rather the reverse from their end if YSWIM) .

remember Bill already said the same UBR's have also been used for the STB's, and although he is probably right in that they dont take much bandwidth (it would be nice if someone can give a generic figure to work from as an average?) they will take a slice of the finite CPU processing and in doing so, will potentially take a few micro seconds or more off each and every transaction, yes?....

every micro second extra taken , will introduce delay, every delay gets stored and then forwarded, and so on, it all mounts up and then you need to find the figure for over-subscription (50/1, 100/1, 150/1?)to then allow a greater % of delay as they will be most likely fed into the UBR finite CPU's from the seperate bit of kit on another bit of wire etc.... more delay...


the fact the UBR is setup to deliver your downstream at the better rate, its not a suprise with over-subscribed units your upload is having an apparent bigger effect, it just means they need to/could software re-configure each one of the UBR's for better ballance of your upload, but that takes investment in kit not investment in boardroom pay rises and such like for that to happen hence the 768k rather than any better upload rate that comes somewere near the long standing advertised Be 1.3 and 2.5 Mbit upload rates.

top usable setting for Docsis1.1 as per the spec is around 10 Mbit user upload so lets say 8Mbit user upload to keep everyone happy, once its past the UBR's and on the internal VM network anything goes, all the way upto 'ohh my god thats FAST' 10terabyte+ (or was it terabit)today i beleave?, although i might have mis-remembered that figure, and that doesnt assume (NTL:tw,etc)VM have actually payed for the kit to get anywere near the current top internal speeds.

BTW H.O.T you ment to say 10Mbit Mb, not 10Megabyte MB i assume...

[SOSAGES]

im a heavy downloader
i have yet to be bothered by this. (im on 4 meg connection btw)
and on the plus side my connection does seem to be improved during the evening.

[Paul H]

It says that during peak times only the top 5% will be throttled. but everyone is being throttled once they hit the limit.

[hammered]

Originally Posted by Paul H

It says that during peak times only the top 5% will be throttled. but everyone is being throttled once they hit the limit.

Limit, what limit... I've been being throttled since last week and I'm hardly using my connection!

I have used P2P for the last couple of years, but started slowing down on the amount I was using since middle of last year, when we were told that they were going to have to set limits to the D/L'ing. I mainly use my connection for browsing, mail and gaming, most the gaming now. My connection is fine during the day normal speeds, but I'm definately being throttled back, yet I've had no notice of this, no letters to say that I'm supposed to be abusing the network. So why am I being throttled!!! IT'S TOTAL *****... I'm paying for the 10MB service, yet am being slapped in the face by VM for abiding by their own set rules... VM is rapidily turning into t bunch of f88kwits!!!

Trouble is, they've got me by the balls as if I were to switch to ADSL, I could only get 1-2MB @ the most due to the lenght of my line!!!

[jcuk]

personally? i work for these guys and ive seen nothing but improvements until this.

virgin/ntl:telewest are/were one of the top providers for the broadband scene, infact they were the enthusiasts consumer broadband provider, even though the cost is ultra-high.

the fact that folk will be paying £37 quid a month for a 5meg connection, cos as virgin say, these are peak times, you could easily go adsl and pay half the price for an upto 16meg connection and get about 5 meg outa it.

utter rubbish tbh. only thing that will make this improve is if they double the caps on each tier and up the basic speed of each service.

10mb - 5mb after 4gb | 20mb - 10mb after 8gb | 50mb - 25mb after 16gb

i personally think that would be a good aim for virgin, and introduce traffic shaping if and when they up speeds to that level

5% i do not think so. almost everyone i know downloads movies, music, games (from steam and such), updates for games at peak times... on average they are on 2mb.

so how long, on a 2mb connection would it take to download a 350mb file?

[KaveMan]

Since this thread manages to wander a bit I thought I'd throw in this...

Do they still support that old analogue TV service? I recall the engineer who came to fit my new digital box when I switched over stating that over 70% of the available bandwidth down the cable was taken up by analogue TV leaving only 30% to support digital TV & the internet services.

[jcuk]

theres quite a few outthere still on analogue m8

[Xan]

If i get a reduced speed i will be looking around for another provider i pay to download when i want to, not when VM tells me to.The same with my cable tv lost sky one so i moved to sky .I might move my broardband to them if i get a reduced speed we will see...

[dav]

Originally Posted by jcuk

personally? i work for these guys and ive seen nothing but improvements until this.

virgin/ntl:telewest are/were one of the top providers for the broadband scene, infact they were the enthusiasts consumer broadband provider, even though the cost is ultra-high.

the fact that folk will be paying £37 quid a month for a 5meg connection, cos as virgin say, these are peak times, you could easily go adsl and pay half the price for an upto 16meg connection and get about 5 meg outa it.

utter rubbish tbh. only thing that will make this improve is if they double the caps on each tier and up the basic speed of each service.

10mb - 5mb after 4gb | 20mb - 10mb after 8gb | 50mb - 25mb after 16gb

i personally think that would be a good aim for virgin, and introduce traffic shaping if and when they up speeds to that level

5% i do not think so. almost everyone i know downloads movies, music, games (from steam and such), updates for games at peak times... on average they are on 2mb.

so how long, on a 2mb connection would it take to download a 350mb file?

Those speeds and limits you suggest would be palletable to almost anyone. I don't think people would have cause to complain at all.

I'm on 2Mb and d/l'd a 350MB file in around 30 minutes last night. The line was certainly not maxed out as I was doing it over my wireless connection which uses a crappy Netgear on its last legs and is only averaging 250kbps with the odd spike up to 1Mbps.