Why is the EPG so restrictive?

fil57 · 01-02-2006, 13:34

Can someone please tell me if there is any technical reason why the electronic programme guide can only be set 2 days in advance? It is very annoying that I can't simply set the STB to switch to a particular channel at a set time each week. Even VHS recorders in the 1980s (and my old analogue STB) could do this!

**Chris T** · 01-02-2006, 14:17

I believe some of the older STBs don't have enough memory and/or processor oomph to cope with a full week's listings. When I first got NTL (about 5 years ago) the full week was available, but waiting for a day's listings more than a couple of days in advance to load was a real pain. I think it was only a matter of months later that they reduced it to three days.

My guess would be that at some point when most of the STBs can cope with it, they will reintroduce it. I would have thought they will have to, if they are going to launch a PVR service, as it will be fairly useless without a fully-featured programme planner for setting recording.

s3man · 01-02-2006, 15:26

Another annoying thing is that since the last software upgrade (Bromley) you can no longer jump to a specific time of day from a drop down list - you can now only press a button to go forward/back 24 hours.

And anyone know why if you go past midnight the mini-screen changes from the current tuned channel to FrontRow preview??

I like to be able to still hear my choice of channel whilst flicking through to see if the is anything else I may want to watch.

**Chris T** · 01-02-2006, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by s3man

And anyone know why if you go past midnight the mini-screen changes from the current tuned channel to FrontRow preview??

I like to be able to still hear my choice of channel whilst flicking through to see if the is anything else I may want to watch.

I believe it may be bandwidth restrictions - they send that day's programme data along with the channel you're watching, allowing you to view them both on screen at once, but there is only so much room to spare, so they can't send a full three-day guide along. When you go beyond the data carried along with the channel you're watching, you are automatically switched to the Frontrow preview channel which carries the full three-day guide.

At least I think that's how it works.

Once upon a time, there was no option to view your programme at all, if you switched to the EPG you got Front Row preview whether you liked it or not. Pity us Sky users, we don't even get movie previews, just horrible muzak.

Tristan · 01-02-2006, 16:48

Chris T got it pretty much spot on. NTL -- as with all the other digital providers -- sends the channels in bunches called transport streams, or multiplexes (you will see this term a lot on DTT sites).

On cable, every transport stream carries EPG information for every channel for the current day. This is in contrast to Sky, where the transport stream only carries information for the channels on that stream -- this is why the Mini Guide doesn't work properly* on Sky boxes, and why they can't have a mini-TV on their full Guide screen.

To save bandwidth on cable, there is only one TS that carries all the information for all three days. This is the same one that carries the Front Row preview channel -- so when the box has to switch streams to get the new data, it switches over the mini TV, too.

The reason it's three days rather than seven or eight is, as has been pointed out, due to the limited RAM in the older boxes, and due to the enormous length of time it would take for the box to gather data for seven days (it's bad enough with just three!). Just be thankful you're not on Telewest -- they only have the current day, and that's it.

* Well, it explains why you can only get info for the current programme, and not any others. It doesn't explain why Sky's UI designers think you need to press left and right to go up and down...

s3man · 01-02-2006, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

I believe it may be bandwidth restrictions - they send that day's programme data along with the channel you're watching...
When you go beyond the data carried along with the channel you're watching, you are automatically switched to the Frontrow preview channel...

At least I think that's how it works.

Once upon a time, there was no option to view your programme at all, if you switched to the EPG you got Front Row preview whether you liked it or not. Pity us Sky users, we don't even get movie previews, just horrible muzak.

Cheers Chris - at least we get something better on Ntl then!

Still it would be nice if they re-implemented being able to jump from 8am to 7pm (or whenever) via a drop-down then have to scroll through the hours... maybe I just want too much

fil57 · 01-02-2006, 19:50

Thanks for all the replies; I guess we have to put up with the bandwidth/memory restrictions for now for the EPG. But surely it should be relatively simple to add a function to the STB software to switch the box on at any given time on a particular channel without having to refer to the EPG (as the old analogue box did)? Couldn't take more than a few lines of code?

Tristan · 01-02-2006, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by fil57

Thanks for all the replies; I guess we have to put up with the bandwidth/memory restrictions for now for the EPG. But surely it should be relatively simple to add a function to the STB software to switch the box on at any given time on a particular channel without having to refer to the EPG (as the old analogue box did)? Couldn't take more than a few lines of code?

Yes, it would be very easy, and it's been suggested many times over the years. Yet I've never heard a convincing reason why NTL (or Telewest or Sky) don't do it this way.