TiVo : General TiVo Discussion Part 3

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by denphone

And when do you you think this will arrive at the station DF.

I believe that VM are working on the best way to do this, so there is no need for wires all around the home. NickO on the Community Forum has said as much.

There is also the programme holders rights to work to.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

I believe that VM are working on the best way to do this, so there is no need for wires all around the home. NickO on the Community Forum has said as much.

There is also the programme holders rights to work to.

Yes and that can take a while by all accounts.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by denphone

Yes and that can take a while by all accounts.

Now, there's a surprise!

Why, don't they let those who want to connect by wire do so, and those that don't can wait for the wire free solution?

With regard to 'rights', presumably multi room streaming has been planned from the get-go, so these should have been sorted by now, surely.

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by passingbat

Now, there's a surprise!

Why, don't they let those who want to connect by wire do so, and those that don't can wait for the wire free solution?

With regard to 'rights', presumably multi room streaming has been planned from the get-go, so these should have been sorted by now, surely.

Still some ironing out to do, I believe. In the US it's easier as TiVo is just the box, but VM is the platform too.

[Itshim]

With regards to rights, it strikes me as a red herring. You have a copy,so what difference does were you watch it in your home make. Ie you can recorded it on both m/cs if you really want too !!! sad but true ( we do in our house !!! in case her in doors wants to watch something recorded & I don`t as I said sad)

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by passingbat

Why, don't they let those who want to connect by wire do so, and those that don't can wait for the wire free solution?

Because there is a lot more to turning something on than just the customer side of things

For instance:

You also have to test it against any other kit it could possible be connected to - and by that I meant 3rd party routers as much as any kit Virgin Media have issued in the past.

Once you've done that and any issues identified, you then have to work out whether they are 'in scope' for Virgin to resolve, or classed as an issue with customer's own kit etc.

Then you have to design training, arrange for agents to be trained and then deliver the training

You then have to plan it's rollout to make sure you can manage any calls in from Customers that want to use it and/or have 'fiddled' and manged to disable something

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------

Originally Posted by Itshim

With regards to rights, it strikes me as a red herring. You have a copy,so what difference does were you watch it in your home make. Ie you can recorded it on both m/cs if you really want too !!! sad but true ( we do in our house !!! in case her in doors wants to watch something recorded & I don`t as I said sad)

Except the rights ARE different.

For instance the BBC don't have all the rights to stream via iPlayer all the programmes they show on their channels, yet you can record all of them on TiVo (or anything else for that matter). Same as you can record something legally, but downloading the same thing to your PC from a torrent site would be classed as illegal.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Because there is a lot more to turning something on than just the customer side of things




---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------

Except the rights ARE different.

For instance the BBC don't have all the rights to stream via iPlayer all the programmes they show on their channels, yet you can record all of them on TiVo (or anything else for that matter). Same as you can record something legally, but downloading the same thing to your PC from a torrent site would be classed as illegal.

I am still not sure what you are trying to say. I am being slow here, as I find your answers clear & precise normally.
You can record the same programme on as many boxes as you like,but you can`t send from one box to another.?
Is that not like saying you can record to a DVD on one m/c but not use it on another player in the same house
I take it that this system would not stream from a PC say. So I fail to see the problem in the case of copyright at least .

[ShadowTD]

The problem there Itshim is you are using Common Sense when it comes to content licensing and that's simply not allowed.

I have to say that I'm not too swayed by the 'reasons' multi-room streaming isn't available - it's pretty well developed in the states, so why can't we at least have what they have?

[alwaysabear]

From what I have read its the streaming of HD content that worries copyright holders.

[pauldavies83]

Originally Posted by Itshim

Is that not like saying you can record to a DVD on one m/c but not use it on another player in the same house

Exactly. But what is worse about the "licencing refusal", is that if you did what you have described then you would have a physical copy of the content that you could easily take to another property and play.

With room-to-room streaming via DVR's, the content's DRM is still enforced and is only playable on devices linked to your main device (i.e. the 2nd TiVo on the VM account with multi-room streaming enabled). So it's actually a lot more protected than DVD-R or the old-school VHS, as the content can never leave that customer's property (in theory).

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Itshim

I am still not sure what you are trying to say. I am being slow here, as I find your answers clear & precise normally.
You can record the same programme on as many boxes as you like,but you can`t send from one box to another.?

Technically yes that's right.

It's a fuzzy bit of copyright law that allows PVRs to exist in the first place. Specifically http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-o...-timeshift.htm

The second paragraph is important when you are talking about streaming:

Time-shifting
A recording of a broadcast can be made in domestic premises for private and domestic use to enable it to be viewed or listened to at a more convenient time.

This time-shifting exception does not however cover the making of recordings for placing in a collection for repeated viewing or listening. The making of a recording for purposes other than to time-shift a programme for your or your family is likely to be illegal.

Obviously there is no real benefit for individuals to be investigated for not deleting/wiping a recording they've made, but the Copyright holders will likely be very keen to make the distinction between the 'timeshift' exception and multi-room streaming which I think they class as something else

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Technically yes that's right.

It's a fuzzy bit of copyright law that allows PVRs to exist in the first place. Specifically http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-o...-timeshift.htm

The second paragraph is important when you are talking about streaming:



Obviously there is no real benefit for individuals to be investigated for not deleting/wiping a recording they've made, but the Copyright holders will likely be very keen to make the distinction between the 'timeshift' exception and multi-room streaming which I think they class as something else

Know I understand - daft but I understand. In my case we record watch later ( time shift) and delete

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:17 ----------

Exactly. But what is worse about the "licencing refusal", is that if you did what you have described then you would have a physical copy of the content that you could easily take to another property and play.

Sorry was used to show that you can play on more than one machine. Look at it another way if you like. You purchase a DVD you play it in room A. you can not then play it in room B because its been on in room A - Forget different houses. Anyway Ben has answered the question.Just thought you should get my drift

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by ShadowTD

I have to say that I'm not too swayed by the 'reasons' multi-room streaming isn't available - it's pretty well developed in the states, so why can't we at least have what they have?

Two main reasons

1) The 'Fair Use' laws in the US are much stronger than they are in the UK

2) TiVo is an add on box in the US for the most part, so is outside control of the cable companies and channel providers

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Two main reasons

1) The 'Fair Use' laws in the US are much stronger than they are in the UK

2) TiVo is an add on box in the US for the most part, so is outside control of the cable companies and channel providers

That is true mine was just used as a sort of posh VCR

[passingbat]

I get irritated by this copyright buisness that gets imposed on us. I legally pay for TV shows by using VM and the TV companies want to put barriers in the way for things like multiroom.

Yet people illegally download shows from the internet and can watch it where they want.

I am against illegal downloading, and don't do it, but I sometimes think broadcast companies get what they deserve in lost revenue because they put barriers in the way of people who ligitimately pay for the content.