New Smart card areas channel changes - Page 6

Ignitionnet · 06-12-2009, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsmuk

How are they doing this then?

Are the channels being duplicated at the moment so that one set of channels are on N2 and the others are on N3? and the new card maps the EPG to the new channels??

OR

can they apply two types of encryption to one video stream?

The Don kindly filled you in, my more verbose response is linked below.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34916346-post634.html

Horace · 06-12-2009, 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniperdude

clear something up

you guys seem to be under the impression that i care what encryption is used
on virgin tv and I really don't care at all

I don't use virgin TV I have sky as I get it at a discounted price
so virgin using Nagravision 3, Irdeto or Viaccess its all the same to me it dont effect me

Then quit posting about something you don't care about...Bernard. There's a lot of people on this forum very happy that VM have finally got round to stopping people getting for free what they pay for, some for over a decade. You look like you're trying to spoil the party

.

sniperdude · 06-12-2009, 03:45

ok I will get into the party mood like you

Yay N3 is here yeeeeeeha no more filthy scum stealing cable TV ye haaaa

LOL ffs

one2escape · 06-12-2009, 10:07

There is a lot of naivety of this thread. The new encryption will get cracked eventually. The more companies use this encryption the higher likelihood it will be cracked.

BTW I do not want it cracked if it means lower bills for me. I do not use a dodgy box or wish to have one!

BenMcr · 06-12-2009, 10:10

That's as maybe but why do you think Sky replace their cards every few years?

Now that VM have/will have done the replacement one, further swap outs will be a lot easier to do

TheDon · 06-12-2009, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by one2escape

There is a lot of naivety of this thread. The new encryption will get cracked eventually. The more companies use this encryption the higher likelihood it will be cracked.

Where does this higher likelihood come from?
Increased demand for a crack doesn't make it easier, the only way it gets more likely is if more people are attempting to crack it.

For it rolling out here to mean the chances of it getting cracked increase it would have to mean that for some reason it being in use here means more people will be focussed on trying to crack it.

That's just not simply going to happen.

This isn't something your bedroom hacker can do, this is something that people pay a fortune for people to crack.

Anyone that has the know how and capability to hack n3 is likely already trying, because the financial incentives to do so will be massive. There are some companies out there (not just NDS) who would pay a massive sum to anyone that broke n3, the motivation to break it isn't going to go up because it's rolled out in a few more countries, the motivation is already there in the terms of cold hard cash.

It's not naive to say that n3 will likely remain secure for a long time. If a card is going to be hacked it usually happens pretty soon after it's been rolled out, because the methods for hacking smart cards are well documented and well practiced. Look at the switch from n1 to n2, that was cracked near instantly.

In fact it's the reverse of your position which is actually true, the longer a system is in place without being compromised the less likely it becomes that it will be compromised, simply because it will have already stood up to the attacks that are usually used to defeat them, and there starts to become less and less ways it's possible to attempt to break it.

Horace · 06-12-2009, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

Where does this higher likelihood come from?
Increased demand for a crack doesn't make it easier, the only way it gets more likely is if more people are attempting to crack it.

The higher the demand the more likely a commercial group will get a return on the significant investment required to break the encryption. Many of the most recent satellite hacks have been re-sold using encrypted(oh the irony) smart cards or CAM's. In some cases these in turn have been cracked and hacks made available to the public for free.
Having said that, the market in Spain and Germany is much much larger then in the UK and that hasn't helped their attempts along very far.

TheDon · 06-12-2009, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horace

The higher the demand the more likely a commercial group will get a return on the significant investment required to break the encryption. Many of the most recent satellite hacks have been re-sold using encrypted(oh the irony) smart cards or CAM's. In some cases these in turn have been cracked and hacks made available to the public for free.
Having said that, the market in Spain and Germany is much much larger then in the UK and that hasn't helped their attempts along very far.

And the US, Dish network uses n3.

You've then basically just said exactly the same as I did?

There's already more than enough services using it for it to be extremely profitable, and has been for a while. Dish alone would provide enough of a market for it to be profitable, near enough 100% coverage of the US, that's over 100million households.

No one is suddenly going to sit up and take notice of the ~10mill households that are in a VM servicable area.

As I said, anyone that could hack n3 is already trying, what VM rolls out is irrelevant to that as the usage of n3 has already passed the point where it becomes commercially viable to do so, going "VM are using it, so now it's more likely to get cracked!" isn't just naive, it's wrong.

dsmuk · 06-12-2009, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

The method of scrambling the video is identical in both n1 and n3, the only difference is the algorithms used to generate and decrypt the control word used to scramble the video.

So, you can run both along side each other easily just by sending both the encrypted n1 and n3 code words on the same channel, these will both decrypt to the same code word, which will unscramble the video.

So it's like the 2nd, but they're not really encrypting the video stream with two types of encryption, it's scrambled the same way, but the key to unscramble it has two types of encryption applied and both are broadcast on the network.

Cheers for that, did wonder if they were broadcasting all the channels twice where all the extra bandwidth was coming from but didn't know they could have both running side by side.

Thanks

faisalabadi · 09-12-2009, 16:05

the doggy boxes are still working

TheDon · 09-12-2009, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by faisalabadi

the doggy boxes are still working

Not on the n3 only channels in leeds they aren't.

Just wait, yours will go down soon too.

Sirius · 09-12-2009, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by faisalabadi

the doggy boxes are still working

Burnley is not on the first roll out. Those dodgy boxes in Burnley will be made into door stop's soon

faisalabadi · 09-12-2009, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

Burnley is not on the first roll out. Those dodgy boxes in Burnley will be made into door stop's soon

Excuse me mate, My friend who is in leeds said that his box went off. After this he scanned it then it came back on again. So that means that vm dont have enough security for all these free ppv to come to an end.

Ben B · 09-12-2009, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by faisalabadi

Excuse me mate, My friend who is in leeds said that his box went off. After this he scanned it then it came back on again. So that means that vm dont have enough security for all these free ppv to come to an end.

He will have some channels missing and some still available but the rest will soon disappear once they have encrypted them all. Hope he enjoys his new doorstop

Sirius · 09-12-2009, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by faisalabadi

Excuse me mate, My friend who is in leeds said that his box went off. After this he scanned it then it came back on again. So that means that vm dont have enough security for all these free ppv to come to an end.

I will say this

DREAM on

If you think that VM would spend the amount of money they have to have it not work you are mistaken. Look at some of the other forums that deal with dodgy boxes and read the latest info. However i will give you a quote from one of the other forums.

Quote:

Sigh .

Your IP address puts you in Leeds. New secure encryption is being implemented in Leeds, and many of the channels have already gone black and more will go soon.

To put it simply you are stuffed.

There is no fix for it - the days of free tv are now history for you

You have 3 options if you want the pay channels back:

1) Pay VM oodles of money for the pay channels

2) Pay Sky UK oodles of money for the satellite channels

3) Do without

Your choice, but thats the ONLY set of choices for you now.

That was posted by a moderator of said forum.