No More HD - Confirmed By VM

[Bob]

Originally Posted by JethroUK

Don't let them hear you say that - a Sony - i say a Sony TV benefitting from external upscaling? - how very dare you

I forget that it also does this itself...as there is no way of enabling/disabling it in the menus you kind of forget it's there lol!

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I am grlad l read this thread, as if it is confirmed, then l will l be straight ont trading standard, as VM are falsely advertising, the V+ plus with HD content, and people are buying this box, in the hope that they can get HD channels on the box, and they can only get a few, at the moment, if you have a SKY+box, you will get all the HD services available, which you will, so what is the damn point of getting a V+ from VM if you are only going to get TWO HD channels from BBC, what a rip off. l bought an HD tv for £500.00 on this basis, as l have VM, and a V+BOX.

[Matt D]

Arthur,

There *is* HD content though. Just not loads of HD channels like on Sky HD.


Also, if you have a Sky+ box, you will not get any HD services... you need a SkyHD box.

[supremus]

Originally Posted by JethroUK

I have defended my case all over this thread - you, however have not once attempted to justify your arguments:

The content of my statements are common knowledge. It's not my job to educate you, but a quick google search will find any number of surveys highlighting how both retailers and consumers are woefully uninformed on this subject, and even a quick read through this forum will prove the same thing.

As for your "case", it's clear for anyone to see that you made a number of false statements about what you believed I was saying, which I again attribute to your wild imagination or comprehension issues, or perhaps a combination of both. If you can find any evidence of me making any kind of statements or comparisons between analog and digital, feel free to present it.

[moroboshi]

Originally Posted by homealone

I don't care what anyone else thinks, I find the upscaling feature of the V+ box gives a superior picture on our 32" HD LCD telly than the previous Samsung 2100C did on the same telly.

That is my opinion based on personal experience, whether am being deluded or 'suffering' from propaganda is immaterial - I think it is better, which is all that matters to me, whether I have had a wash, or not

Frankly your TV is far too small to see any difference in upscalers.

When you have a larger TV, 46-60" the difference in upscalers is apparent, and also apparent is just how dreadful SD looks no matter what kind of smudging and smearing is done to it.

Go and watch a good blu-ray on a 60" 1080p plasma then try the same set with upscaled SD and the difference will be absolutely epic.

HD is clearly something for the enthusiasts at present, but then I guess colour was back in the day too.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Hi ya Matt, thank you for pointing that one out, l forgot to mention that with Sky, you need a HD box to receive HD channels.

[JethroUK]

Originally Posted by supremus

The content of my statements are common knowledge. It's not my job to educate you.

You don't need to do anything except retain a shred of credibility - tricky since the discussion turned to benefits of V+ upscaling - to which you respond

Originally Posted by supremus

It's quite amazing how gullible the masses are. When it comes to anything digital, they seem to believe the propaganda over their own eyes and ears.

Which clearly suggests we only imagine the benefit - which is untrue - and where you came unstuck


.

[homealone]

Originally Posted by moroboshi

Frankly your TV is far too small to see any difference in upscalers.

When you have a larger TV, 46-60" the difference in upscalers is apparent, and also apparent is just how dreadful SD looks no matter what kind of smudging and smearing is done to it.

Go and watch a good blu-ray on a 60" 1080p plasma then try the same set with upscaled SD and the difference will be absolutely epic.

HD is clearly something for the enthusiasts at present, but then I guess colour was back in the day too.

good, thank you for confirming my TV is just the right size for me & what I want it to do for me, now - I don't have a 46 -60" display, so will still maintain the settings I have are right for me - I never said yours were wrong


you 60" plasma - me 19" computer monitor

[supremus]

Originally Posted by JethroUK

You don't need to do anything except retain a shred of credibility

Which I have completely succeeded in doing.

tricky since the discussion turned to benefits of V+ upscaling - to which you respond

Which clearly suggests we only imagine the benefit - which is untrue - and where you came unstuck.

Please stop making stuff up. It's a cold, hard fact that the claims about HD quality upscaling are at best extremely misleading, and at worst completely untrue. I compared this to the claims about CD quality audio on DTV broadcasts, which was an original selling point for OnDigital back in the day. Despite your obvious attempts at distorting what I said, I never said there were no benefits to upscaling. I would once again ask you to prove I said anything of the sort, but experience tells me this would be a waste of time, and that the bext we can hope for is more nonsense about digging, which I'll concede is an area in which you evidently have more experience than I do.

[JethroUK]

Originally Posted by supremus

Please stop making stuff up..

I haven't made any of your quotes up

Originally Posted by supremus

It's a cold, hard fact that the claims about HD quality upscaling are at best extremely misleading, and at worst completely untrue...

'claims' about upscaling weren't being discussed

If you want cold, hard facts - then what was being discussed were very real benefits of V+ upscaling from real people who are looking at those benefits right now on real screens - there are some facts!!!!! to which you respond:

Originally Posted by supremus

It's quite amazing how gullible the masses are. When it comes to anything digital, they seem to believe the propaganda over their own eyes and ears.

like we're morons who are not experiencing real benefits at all and merely think we are

if you want to tell us facts - tell us that is not so!

[supremus]

Originally Posted by JethroUK

I haven't made any of your quotes up

<sigh> I didn't say you had many up my quotes, but your conclusions about what those quotes meant or suggested were clearly false.

'claims' about upscaling weren't being discussed

Of course it was. I mentioned it, and people commented on it, thus it was being discussed.

like we're morons who are not experiencing real benefits at all

Again, please stop making things up. Let me make this perfectly clear to you. What I said was that people who claim upscaled HD is on par with proper HD are either lying or fooling themselves. I never, not once, said that there were no benefits to upscaling, but rather that its only benefit is taking better advantage of the limitations of LCD and Plasmas, whose native resolutions aren't ideal for the display of lower resolution SD content. Upscaling is a compromise. Period.

... and merely think we are

Ah, so this is the reason for the huge chip on your shoulder. You imagined I called you a moron. Being gullible and a moron are hardly the same thing, but everyone around here knows how easy it is to fool the average consumer with claims about CD Quality MP3s, HD Quality upscaling, etc, etc. A recent Ofcom survey even highlighted how retailers are fooling consumers into thinking widescreen and HD are the same thing, and let's not even get started on the misinformation campaign about the digital switchover.

You should try not to take my comments so personally, and accept what we all know to be true, that the average consumer is very uninformed and gullible on this subject.

[JethroUK]

just spotted another loony

expect he must've read bout upscaling and imagined the improvements (being a bit of a moron)

.

---------- Post added at 00:46 ---------- Previous post was at 00:10 ----------

Originally Posted by supremus

Let me make this perfectly clear to you.

At last

Originally Posted by supremus

...What I said was that people who claim upscaled HD is on par with proper HD are either lying or fooling themselves...

don't know of a person that has a problem with that - although technically you do end up with Hi-Def resolution - which is open to mis interpretation

Originally Posted by supremus

I never, not once, said that there were no benefits to upscaling

that's the problem - the general poo-pooing of upscaling per se as in:

Originally Posted by supremus

Yes, upscaling isn't very good at all. In fact, technically, it actually degrades the original picture...

sends a very clear signal to anyone thinking about buying into external upscaling

followed by:

Originally Posted by supremus

It's quite amazing how gullible the masses are. When it comes to anything digital, they seem to believe the propaganda over their own eyes and ears.

hence i'm making it quite clear that upscaling does work - it does benefit - i know because i'm looking at it right now

[supremus]

Originally Posted by JethroUK

that's the problem - the general poo-pooing of upscaling per se as in:

It deserves poo-pooing, as you so eloquently put it. It's a compromise, and as such, isn't very good. If there were an ideal way to display SD content on an HD set, that would be very good. See the difference? I couldn't care less if anybody buys upscaling or not, but the fact that you think anyone might be swayed by my comments can surely only mean you know that the average consumer is as gullible as I said.

sends a very clear signal to anyone thinking about buying into external upscaling

Not to anyone who understands the particulars of upscaling, which once again brings us back to how clueless you would have to be about the subject to be put off by my factually correct comments.

hence i'm making it quite clear that upscaling does work - it does benefit - i know because i'm looking at it right now

That's a very differerent point though. Far different from your ramblings about megapixels, cameras, 35mm and vinyl, followed by the irony of your subsequent assertion that claims about upscaling weren't being discussed. Were megapixels, cameras, 35mm and vinyl being discussed? No.

You keep pretending I said there is no benefit to upscaling, when I specifically said there was. The reality is that you completely overreacted and misrepresented my comments.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I am grlad l read this thread, as if it is confirmed, then l will l be straight ont trading standard, as VM are falsely advertising, the V+ plus with HD content, and people are buying this box, in the hope that they can get HD channels on the box, and they can only get a few, at the moment, if you have a SKY+box, you will get all the HD services available, which you will, so what is the damn point of getting a V+ from VM if you are only going to get TWO HD channels from BBC, what a rip off. l bought an HD tv for £500.00 on this basis, as l have VM, and a V+BOX.

We share your frustration, but VM have not falsely advertised anything. And there's more bad news, you can only get ONE HD channel from the BBC!

We are keeping our fingers crossed that VM will bring us the other terrestrial HD channels as they come out this year although personally I think 2009 is the earliest date for the launch of these channels on VM.

Don't forget that you also have HD programmes and films on VOD, although the choice is limited at the moment.

[moroboshi]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We share your frustration, but VM have not falsely advertised anything.

Well I'm not sure about that. They do make a point in their website that the V+ is all ready to make the most of your HDTV or some such. Making the most is vague, but one HD channel and a microscopic amount of on demand HD content is stretching it to say the least. Not even Sky could claim to 'make the most' of an HDTV, but they do a damn sight more than Virgin do.

They also advertise their broadband as being without download limits and for those who 'hate to wait'. Not exactly true given how strict their download limits and caps are these days.