All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down - Page 6

Losttheplot · 10-04-2008, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Nagravision 2 has been hacked, nagravision3 as now used by a number of european sat providers is still going strong (please don't confuse card sharing/copying with cracking)

As both NDS (companies like Sky for a couple of years) and Nagra3 (now used by D+ since December) have both resisted cracking you'd think that VM would jump at the next available chance to upgade to these methods....

Kymmy

In order to change encryption systems Virgin have to simulcrypt for a while. This means that two encryption systems are used in parallel, the Nagra system and the replacement system. Some of Virgins kit is not capable of simulcrypting, so Virgin cannot do this. Eventually the kit will be upgraded so simulcryption can be used, and the new encryption will be rolled out but it will take quite some time for them to send out new smartcards before they then finally turn off the Nagra encryption. It won't happen overnight one night!

ahardie · 10-04-2008, 09:43

So are all boxes that are being used illegally getting hit ie chipped boxes and the imported German ones?

**Stuart C** · 10-04-2008, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by joyrider1

I think some of you are missing a point here. I also looked at the other forums, and it seems to me that those who steal cable also have other paid for Virgin services, probally broadband and phone along with a STB on a low package.

They don't do that out of charity, or some sense of duty. They do that to ensure that the next engineer that looks in their local street box doesn't look at their connection and think "Oh, there's a connection not being used, I'll just unhook it and us it for someone else."

Quote:

From what I can gather most of the people with the dodgy boxes use them to get the premium channels that cost extra. These are invariably Sky Sports and Sky Movies.

Maybe. Still doesn't justify theft of service though.

Quote:

Virgin pass on the premiums from these channels to Sky, with very little profit to themselves. Most of Virgins revenue comes from the installation of all the three services and the monthly charge for running them, not from Sky's premium channels.
Are Virgin serving Sky's purpose here?
Shouldnt the boffins at Virgin really be sorting out the criminally poor HD content..................?

Err, more money would probably help sort of HD.

Look, I am not going out of my way to defend Virgin. Truth be told, most big companies would shaft their suppliers given half the chance (in my experience), and I suspect VM would, but bear in mind this: OnDigital.

OnDigital used an easy to crack encryption system, with the result that (they suspect) over half the DTT boxes in use were using dodgy cards to access premium content. OD folded with huge lossess.

One or two people using chipped boxes won't affect VM. Several hundred people using chipped boxes won't affect VM. Several thousand people using chipped boxes WILL affect VM.

Losttheplot · 10-04-2008, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Look, I am not going out of my way to defend Virgin. Truth be told, most big companies would shaft their suppliers given half the chance (in my experience), and I suspect VM would, but bear in mind this: OnDigital.

OnDigital used an easy to crack encryption system, with the result that (they suspect) over half the DTT boxes in use were using dodgy cards to access premium content. OD folded with huge lossess.

One or two people using chipped boxes won't affect VM. Several hundred people using chipped boxes won't affect VM. Several thousand people using chipped boxes WILL affect VM.

One of the people working for the company doing the encyrption for On Digital released a document onto the internet which spelt out the inner workings of the On Digital encryption system. It wasn't hacked. Nobody has hacked any encryption, they have found back doors into certain versions of smartcards which have enabled them to find the Master keys

**Stuart C** · 10-04-2008, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Losttheplot

One of the people working for the company doing the encyrption for On Digital released a document onto the internet which spelt out the inner workings of the On Digital encryption system. It wasn't hacked. Nobody has hacked any encryption, they have found back doors into certain versions of smartcards which have enabled them to find the Master keys

The end result was still the same.. Lots of people getting access to content they didn't pay for.

**Kymmy** · 10-04-2008, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Losttheplot

One of the people working for the company doing the encyrption for On Digital released a document onto the internet which spelt out the inner workings of the On Digital encryption system. It wasn't hacked. Nobody has hacked any encryption, they have found back doors into certain versions of smartcards which have enabled them to find the Master keys

Yep, which is the same way as Nagra2 got done on D+, they were running 2 different encryptions using the same key, one was already known and by using that info they managed to extrapolate a master key for Nagra2.

Even RSA/MD5/WEP and other keyed algorithams don't really get cracked but instead they're brute forced....it's like trying a combination safe with every single possiblecombination....there might be many millions but one of them is right

Until VM do change thier encryption method then unfortunately there will be chipped boxes out there probably putting up the cost for everyone else (even if 10% of the people with chipped boxes instead had a legal subscription then VM would probably have a slightly lower price) but beware even if they do change the encryption method it won't stop card sharing/copying networks

Kymmy

**Stuart C** · 10-04-2008, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Until VM do change thier encryption method then unfortunately there will be chipped boxes out there probably putting up the cost for everyone else (even if 10% of the people with chipped boxes instead had a legal subscription then VM would probably have a slightly lower price) but beware even if they do change the encryption method it won't stop card sharing/copying networks

Kymmy

I've posted this before, but my sister used to work for the DSS. One day, DSS security were giving a speech, and demonstrating the anti-copy protection on their then newly redesigned Giro cheque. Obviously, she couldn't discuss what they were with me.

Anyhow, the demonstrator said (at the end) that they knew that the protection would be broken in 6-8 months. So, my sister asked why bother spending hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of pounds designing the new form. The reply? The DSS will save 10s of millions of pounds in fraudulent payments while the copiers are working on copying the cheque.

frogstamper · 10-04-2008, 13:03

At the end of the day it comes down to two different views in my opinion, those who play by the rules and pay for their cable, those that don't and steal it, simple as that.

the-cable-guy · 10-04-2008, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Losttheplot

In order to change encryption systems Virgin have to simulcrypt for a while. This means that two encryption systems are used in parallel, the Nagra system and the replacement system. Some of Virgins kit is not capable of simulcrypting, so Virgin cannot do this. Eventually the kit will be upgraded so simulcryption can be used, and the new encryption will be rolled out but it will take quite some time for them to send out new smartcards before they then finally turn off the Nagra encryption. It won't happen overnight one night!

no they dont VM only uses Nagravision. if you do a search for the model numbers that we have ie SMT-2110C then you'l see that they have Nagravision cams embedded, so in order for what you say to work we'll all need new STBs.

bigc_imp · 10-04-2008, 13:36

Are my eyes playing tricks with me or are the google adverts at the top of this very page advertising for these dodgy boxes?!

the-cable-guy · 10-04-2008, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by iglu

Yeap, I agree with you. TraxData posted that VM uses the same technology as Sky, I was disputing that...

---------- Post added at 06:57 ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 ----------

The RSA system has been around for ages and nobody cracked it.

---------- Post added at 07:08 ---------- Previous post was at 06:57 ----------

Coders can of course boast that defeated a multi-million dollar incompetent company, why not? Samson v Goliath. It's NTL that should be ashamed for their luck of security. It's simply humiliating for NTL.

If NTL cannot secure their own boxes/revenue, then do you trust them with your own data?

NTL is simply incompetent, they should kiss Murdoch's butt and beg him to use NDS to secure their boxes.

Videoguard was developed by NDS which is part of News Corp which is owned by Ruppert Murdoch who owns Sky. only News Corp companies eg Sky Italy can use Videoguard as they wont allow anyone else to use it. Nagravision & Videoguard are two completely different systems while Videoguard is secure Nagravision isint.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:40 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigc_imp

Are my eyes playing tricks with me or are the google adverts at the top of this very page advertising for these dodgy boxes?!

lol do uno something i was just thinking the same thing.

**Rob M** · 10-04-2008, 13:56

Stoopid Google Ad-Words thing.

Not sure the Team can do anything about it.

**Rob** · 10-04-2008, 14:05

Much as we'd like to the google adsense stuff is based on the page content. the phrase "chipped cable" clearly invites all sorts of undesirable ads. Like spammers, as fast as one ad is blocked, another will take it's place

the-cable-guy · 10-04-2008, 14:11

if you click on the links tho you dont really find any chipped NTL boxes for sale.

jammoboss · 10-04-2008, 14:58

im only a broadband user and used to have cable tv at my previous address, with my new house a dish was already there so i went over to sky instead

What puzzles me mind, why are admins letting people come here and admit there stealing cable?

To be honest you cant trust no one, people might come on here moaning about it, but how do you actually know they or there family havent got a chipped box and come on here for other things. You dont.....

p.s i havent got one so dont reply by saying "for all we know you got one"

i will say one thing mind, my brother does have one, he lives in london and the worst thing is, hes a police officer lol, he tells me many officers do have chipped boxes, mind you i always knew police officers were just as bad as criminals at times.