should i take the job?

[csk8893]

hi all

i am due to start work for NTL on the 22nd may as a trainee installation engineer.i am not sure if i should take the job because it is pieace work and the thought of shelling out several hundred quid for tools is a bit off- putting
what i want to know is what is the average weekly pay after training? and if there is anyone out there working as a installation engineer your comments and advice wil be much appriciated.

chris

[hairy_mick]

Hi csk8893 which contractor would you be working for.

[Paul M]

Are you sure it's for ntl and not one of the agencies they use ?

[csk8893]

its cobra installations

[grubbymitts]

Never work for piece work unless you were there when Time and Motion evaluated the job. The trick behind piecework is to get put onto an average wage as quickly as possible.

This is how we did it at Royal Doulton - the ex pottery factory at Stoke - on Trent.
We'd start off by testing the clay and then sending half the pallet back as we deemed it unworkable (the tools for the job and all that) This would screw up the figures straight away. When the decent clay came back to us we would take our time making each and every plate. If we dropped any piece of clay or plate, we'd stop all the machines and take the long walk to get the squeegee (brushes are a bad idea in a pottery factory with silica dust everywhere) and pan. We'd spend time cleaning up and then take the squeegee and pan back (we always made sure there was only one squeegee and pan for the whole of the shop ). By the time the end of the shift came we hadn't made many pieces and Time and Motion set quite a high price for each plate (thinking we were so slow we'd never make any good money and it would average out at about union basic pay). However, when it came to working the piecework rate, we'd crank up the machines to full speed, never send any clay back and leave all the mess until the end of the shift (the squeegees for each machine would also make a miraculous return) We were making so much money on the system that they had to abandon piecework and give us all an average wage. This worked out at about £350 a week (this was 11 years ago - so a fantastic wage for the job) and a hell of a lot more on shifts. Now we could relax and do as much as we needed to do just to get to the end of the day.

So, no. Don't take the job. Especially if you have to fork out for your own equipment too - what the heck is that about?
And join a union - NTL are notorious for messing you about.

[csk8893]

they said that they used to provide tools but they dont anymore because of engineers damaging and breaking them.thanks for your post

[hairy_mick]

oh no cobra alan grants muppits no no don't do it

[csk8893]

whys that?

[sollp]

Originally Posted by hairy_mick

oh no cobra alan grants muppits no no don't do it

Oh dear, so thats where he went.

[homealone]

this sounds unfair, to me, I'm presuming that a trainee will have a 'probation' period, during which, in my opinion, it is unreasonable to expect you to supply your own tools.

- in the meantime, ask about second hand tools & what you need for the absolute basics.

I don't think anyone should turn down the chance of a job on the basis of a pre-requisite that might cost money, a fork lift licence, a pet-reg certificate, a safety passport - but if the job is described as 'trainee', then in my opinion, the employer should pay for that training - and the tool kit would be built up during the training.

This sounds like a way of paying minimum wage, getting you to pay for your own tools, while retaining the 'right' to terminate your employment with a minimal period of notice.

- but, if you want the experience, then go for it, you only get experience by doing the job...

[Womble]

Originally Posted by csk8893

whys that?

Long story regarding the dreaded Alan Grant
Which area are you going to be working in?
The good installers earn fair money, so I'm told

[Millay]

My Friend worked for cobra a few times, he earned good money. but the company treated him apalingly.. They drop and hire at the drop of a hat.. but if you need to get trained then it might be a good way of getting the relevant training.

[slowcoach]

I think COBRA are missing the plot here, shouldn't they also be charging a fee for training as well

[csk8893]

there is a 2month training period and probation.the tools are supplied during traing but after 2 months i will be charged around £700 for tools if i buy them from cobra or i can get them myself from were ever i want.my main concern is the pieace work.

[grubbymitts]

and piece work sucks unless you can "influence" the prices.