Let us have the truth about the closure and this site

[carlingman]

I like many others are beginning to get a bit a confused here.

Firstly I would like to offer my sincere condolences to Andres family and friends.

I am sorry to hear this even though I never knew him personally.

My first question although I know it will be never answered in public is, Is Frank the co owner of this site as a contingency plan for when NTL shafted him ???

My second query is about a particular post made by a so called Craig J on another forum found here

Posted By Craig J

I am extremely sorry to hear this even though I had never met or had any contact with this person.

I also agree wholeheartedly with you about this being SICK and I also agree with what erolz has said about this now being taken to a whole new level of nastiness.

Andre was a real person and a close friend of Neil. Neil asked his friend if he could use his name as the registered owner of .co.uk - at NO time did the *real*Andre have anything whatsever to do with .co.uk in any hands on capacity ... neither was he even registered on the site.

Andre when posting (which was and is Neil), about an illness was telling the truth, but telling the truth related to the real Andre.

The named registered owner of the site was changed to Paul Goodson ( another friend of Neils ) when Ash G told us on a conference call that he had asked ntl's legal department to contact the registered owner of .co.uk. Because the *real* Andre was ill, I said to Neil that he (the real Andre) could do without the hassle of being contacted and Neil fully agreed, hence the reason why Paul Goodson now shows up as the registered owner.

I apologise to Russ for asking this, but in light of this tragic news, I have to ask him to speak up and not let this farce continue any longer.

I really don't want to discuss this anymore in public, and *am* genuinely sorry to hear the news.

Now what alarms me is the fact that a Mod from here is posting in that very thread and not confirming or denying it.

Now considering Andres death has just been announced here I really find this disgusting and way beyond a sick joke.

[Russ]

Andre's death is no joke.

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Andre's death is no joke.

In all fairness Russ this is not what is being suggested but if what has been said is true then it goes way beyond that.

Given the very sad news of the death I posted a request in two threads that all speculation should be suspended for a decent time as any death is truly tragic.

If, however, a death is being used to mask the truth in the way suggested it makes a mockery of all the calls for trust that so many of us have relied on both at .com and now here. It would also be a shameful disrespect of Andre's memory and the grieving of his close family and friends.

A simple statement by Neil confirming absolutely nothing of what has been claimed has any grain of thruth whatsoever is now the best and maybe only way out of this. This needs to be a catagorical and clear denial of all the claims that have been made not simply a refusal to confirm them.

If any part of the claims has more than a grain of truth to it then now is the time to make a clean breast of things not hide behind what every single person accepts is a sad and tragic event.

Either way the best memorial to Andre will be the truth whatever that truth may be.

I make no claim at all to know anything at all about what is the real truth in this matter but it is clear Neil does. He owes it to his friend if no one else to be completely open and honest now. The same applies to anyone else that is able to confirm or deny specific aspects of the matter not by speculation but by personal knowledge.

EDIT: I took on trust assurances given by both Neil and Craig and so feel personally let down. One or other has breached the trust I placed in them and also breached the trust placed in them by all the members of both communities.

In this anonymous faceless world of the net that trust is all we have please don't take that trust away and make a clear and uniquivicable statement on this matter and please do so before Andre's name is tarnished any further by the squable between two individuals.

[ic14]

I think that if that really is craig j then he is just posting sick lies.....
Something like this should not be posted...

[Alanmelon]

I have to admit that I have no idea as to the history or details of some of the comments here, but something I find a little disturbing is the insistence by some that either this site or .com have/had a responsibility to their users. It's almost as if certain people think they are owed something. As I have said before, at the end of the day, these are just help/comment forums. "Trust" has nothing to do with it, it's not like you're leaving them to babysit your kids! What the mods/owners of these sites do or have done is of no business to the users of the forums, you are not owed an explanation, and if they wanted to, they could shut this site down. I wouldn't expect an explanation or a cheque in the post for my troubles!

I know that there are those who are going to say (re.com) that ntl does have a responsibility to it's customers. Fair point, but lets just see how the whole community thing pans out. ntl do not have a responsibility to provide a forum for people to simply moan and $lag them off.

I don't want to start any conflict here, but I think some need to step back, take a look at the bigger picture, and see this site for what it really is.

[etccarmageddon]

unlike you, I have no wish to blindly follow my self appointed leaders. had enough of that when I trusted and blindly followed Craig J!

[basa]

Originally Posted by Alanmelon

I have to admit that I have no idea as to the history or details of some of the comments here, but something I find a little disturbing is the insistence by some that either this site or .com have/had a responsibility to their users. It's almost as if certain people think they are owed something. As I have said before, at the end of the day, these are just help/comment forums. "Trust" has nothing to do with it, it's not like you're leaving them to babysit your kids! What the mods/owners of these sites do or have done is of no business to the users of the forums, you are not owed an explanation, and if they wanted to, they could shut this site down. I wouldn't expect an explanation or a cheque in the post for my troubles!

I know that there are those who are going to say (re.com) that ntl does have a responsibility to it's customers. Fair point, but lets just see how the whole community thing pans out. ntl do not have a responsibility to provide a forum for people to simply moan and $lag them off.

I don't want to start any conflict here, but I think some need to step back, take a look at the bigger picture, and see this site for what it really is.

I do see where you are coming from Alan, but, do you not think that when you have been an active member of a forum for a long time you tend to develop a sense of belonging to a community. If you then discover that the 'leaders' of that community have lied to you and deceived you, would you feel betrayed ??

Again and IMO more importantly, some members entrust personal info to these leaders in problem solving. A certain amount of trust is invoved then to feel that personal info is not going to be misused.

That is why this issue is tantamount.

[etccarmageddon]

search through micks posts and find this...

Quite frankly handyman, you have no idea and what or who your dealing with when it comes down to Craig. I noticed you backed him up in that thread I removed the other night and your still backing him up, funny that, have you been having private msn conversations ? Pitty he didn't tell you about the time when we were taking on moderators, that I recommended you for moderator position on nthw.com and he said 'no way'.

When I was 'Minder' back in Feb of this year I was approached by Craig, asked if I would be interested in moderating nthw.com, who wouldn't miss an opportunity to moderate one of the best forums out there? Of course I said I was interested, but Craig did say that there is more to moderating that site than meets the eye, he made it sound dead complicated.

So I became a moderator, anyone remember Mike B? He was still a mod when I became a moderator, but he was off due to personal problems, but Mike came back, when he did, he made an error, not his fault and Craig ripped him to bits right in front of me (I had only been there a few weeks) in our admin area, the next day Mike B left the team and not a word was mentioned about his departure. I never really got to know Mike B but nevermind - suppose it would of been interesting having two Michael's on the team. But it was not to be.

In June this year, the bombshell was dropped that nthellworld.com would lose its ntl forums for community (a death sentence to nthw.com in anyones eyes) and it was not known if we were going to be a part of it. As the weeks went by, Frank was off due to personal problems, there was no actual 'management' figure visable to the team, Craig took huge advantage of this and took a month away from the site (Unofficial) though he would come back and heavily deny that.

We all took this stance that if one of us was to be took to community, we all go, this is something we all agreed on. A few weeks passed and Craig saw a job opportunity, if he was offered one?? Who knows but he changed his tune dramatically, he took the stance of 'I am looking after number one now' and he meant it. We saw him posting his posts with a sudden spate of all these smilies in his posts, how fake was that? He would choose to be on that board 24/7 and if you ask why you only saw him, modding with him you used to trip over one another, I would be moving a thread that he was also trying to move.

He also at times, liked to moderate not only the members but the team too, he would phone one of us up and we would get a ticking off that this and that thread had not been moved, oh dear Neil has left a redirect. He would often say 'I saw what you was doing, 'Yeah I noticed you moved that thread.' I also remember the times when Frank used to be watching on whose online and Craig would log out because he himself did not like being watched.

Frank came back from his absence, I remember Craig's reaction lets just say I do not think Craig was impressed. (Remember the job opportunity, put two and two together and you do get 4).

Then there were the issues with Ben, Ben was not up to Craig's standards, so he made Ben's life on the board a misery, he would ignore him, he would not work with him, he would whinge to either me or Neil that he's no good,we need to get rid of him. Notice that Ben remained a moderator, until recently he is now an Admin.

Then became the backstabbing incident, Craig was mouthing off to someone about how he is the site and that he is always there (His choice because he does not work for a living) I told him that it was his own choice but he ignored my views and went on saying that it was only him looking after the place. I had my reasons for taking time away from the site, yet I did not see what it had to do with Craig, he was not the site editor, but he often always played the part, I remember he re-closed a thread Frank had opened that is how he was and he was close to being booted out a few times.

So some of you might be feeling sorry for Craig because of the way he is being treated, but I am sorry to say that he should of known better to come out with crap about who is running here, he was suspended for four weeks with a view to coming back, now that he has mouthed off this nonsense, I cannot say that he is coming back but if he does, then I walk, I might have to leave after posting this but I have to say he cannot be trusted, he help run two other forums that he also got banned from eventually. I have come to to the conclusion that he cannot be trusted with the position he is put into when running a forum and that is coming from somebody on the inside who has worked with him.

in the above comments Mick refers to Craig as "mouthed off this nonsense" - that in my opinion is a complete denial that Mick is secretly Dr Pepper on this site or whatever the mod on here Craig is saying Mick is!

So either Mick has lied to us or Craig has. simple.


"he should of known better to come out with crap about who is running here"
- this is another strong denial in my opinion.

[Alanmelon]

Originally Posted by Drudge

A forum cannot operate without the mods and Admins (or at least most of them) having the respect of the members.

(Removes lid from worm can)
Sorry, but I disagree with you on that one. Mods and admins are not there to be respected (or "followed"?! as one put it) but to run the forum in a sensible and constructive manner. I fully believe that a forum can operate without the need for respect of it's admins.
(Scatters worms freely around)

[basa]

Originally Posted by Alanmelon

(Removes lid from worm can)
Sorry, but I disagree with you on that one. Mods and admins are not there to be respected (or "followed"?! as one put it) but to run the forum in a sensible and constructive manner. I fully believe that a forum can operate without the need for respect of it's admins.
(Scatters worms freely around)

Well that is up to you of course, but I for one would prefer to deal with people who, whilst may prefer to retain anonymity, have not deliberately lied to me or tried to deceive me (if it transpires that is what they have done).

[Florence]

I would say its Craig that is still trying to bring these forums down so he will be number one on community like he was trying to do with Ashg. Boasting he can run the forums entirely on his own, also trying for a pay rise. His words not mine!

[Undisputedtruth]

My feeling on this subject is both parties, Craig and Neil are telling the truth as they see it and where there are differences I will put it down to a misunderstanding.

In all fairness to Neil, I don't think Neil is using the death of Andre to mask the fact that he was using the name of Andre. The real 'Andre' would be far to ILL too post anything at all.

[erol]

It has been alledged that the posts here under the nickname 'Andre' were in fact written by Neil. If this is true then to allow people to think otherwise, given the tragic circumstances of the real Andre, is simply disgusting imo.

Are the posting here under the name 'Andre' consistent with having been written by Neil ? All I would say is have a look at this post.

http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showp...1&postcount=17

and make up your own mind.

If people here truely want to honour the memory of Andre, then they should come clean abour who was using that nickname in the past. To not do so is just dispicable.

[Maggy J]

I also remember when CraigJ was known as compunightmare at .com.He was a completely different character as compunightmare to the persona I had dealings with as CraigJ.So I'm taking his comments with a great deal of salt.I'm also doing the same with everyone else who posts here or ANYWHERE on the net.We have to most of the time.Unless you meet someone for real you can't really know that they are who they are(and even then you can't be sure unless you meet them very regularly).

Now will all the disaffected .commers please shut up about your conspiracy theories and stop trying to ruin this site as well.
Not so long ago I gave you a good welcome and asked that you all think of this as a fresh start and a chance for fresh topics but here we are back to OLD topics.

Time to leave it or this site methinks if you can't even do that so if you like to bicker go over to nt:hell and do so there.PLEASE!

Incog.

[etccarmageddon]

who's bickering?