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Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed
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Old 02-05-2012, 18:29   #1786
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Again, please explain what they are offering if the only options are 40/10 or 80/20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan View Post
60 is 60. And that is what BT have told me is available to me. Or are you going to say that they are wrong also?
No, they said that is the predicted speed of your phone line. Nowhere on the page you quoted does it say this is the maximum speed available to you.

What it does say is:
Quote:
Broadband speed range
BT always offers you the best speed possible on your line.The speed prediction we have given here is an estimate, however download speeds can vary and the actual download speed will fall within a range. The range is an indication of the speed that other similar lines across the UK have achieved for their broadband service; this is generally within 1-2 Mb higher or lower than your single estimated speed quoted.

The actual speed is dependent on several factors such as the product option you choose
60 is an estimate of what your line is capable of. Not every line in an area is capable of maximum speed. This is how DSL works. The actual choices are 40/10 or 80/20. You are clearly offered something above 40/10. Once again, what do you think you are being offered instead, if it is not 80/20?

How about you click "Start your order" on the 80/20 service and enter your address. If it is not available in your area then you will get a page like this, except with Option 2 replaced with Option 1. Take a screenshot of it and I will happy admit I am wrong (and so is BT, Openreach, and everyone else who has any clue about the matter)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan View Post
If you want to talk about name calling, the you should look at many of your previous posts when anyone doesn't agree with you. And also the private messages that you send.
I didn't talk about name calling, you did.

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Originally Posted by Tim Deegan View Post
If you are right, then BT are also wrong, because they said quite clearly 60mb
No, if I am right, only you are wrong. Nothing BT have said would have to be incorrect for me to be right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan View Post
It's about time that you were mature enough to accept that you don't know it all. And other people are entitled to make a post that you don't agree with, without you abusing them for it.
I've posted several sources that prove I am right on this matter, including BT themselves. You claim I am wrong because BT contradicts me, yet the only thing you've said to back this up actually agrees with me.

All you've said is your line is expected to get around 60, which proves my point and not yours. You've made no logical arguement to suggest I am wrong, and your only evidence is your estimated speed based on the quality of your line is less than the maximum possible, which isn't even relevant. Almost everyone's estimated speed is below the maximum, that does not mean the service does not exist.

The only way to get a predicted speed of 60 is on the 80/20 service, since the only other option is 40/10.

Last edited by qasdfdsaq; 02-05-2012 at 18:45.
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Old 02-05-2012, 18:56   #1787
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

As an impartial dude, I thought I would step in.

BT isn't like VM Tim where they'll tell everyone they can get "up to" 100mbit. My exchange is enabled for 80mbit and maybe the new 100, but when I put my postcode into the checker it tells me my estimate is 55 down and 13 up and that is out of a maximum of 80 down and 20 up. This gives me a choice of taking thee 40/10 tier where I know I'll get 100% of my speed or taking the 80/20 tier and hoping for the best. The nice thing about BT is that at least I know what I am going to get consistently and the speed wont vary as much as it does on VM. If you try to proceed with your 60/whatever order you'll see you are signing up to the 80/20 tier whatever it is called.
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:16   #1788
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

any one else force upstream channel changes before the upgrade?

found it a breeze on 30mb, very rarely did i get same channel after hard reset of hub, but on 60mb i cant get off channel 1 and latency is peaking at 60 - 100 ms at peaky times and normally i can find a channel that stays at 60 ms max peaks which is best i can get any time of day since being with vm a year ago.

i liked the option being there so when those random couple of hours of insane latency happen i could choice to find the best of the worst before deciding what game to button bash

Last edited by asbo dog; 09-05-2012 at 13:40.
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Old 09-05-2012, 16:04   #1789
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Maximus View Post
As an impartial dude, I thought I would step in.

BT isn't like VM Tim where they'll tell everyone they can get "up to" 100mbit. My exchange is enabled for 80mbit and maybe the new 100, but when I put my postcode into the checker it tells me my estimate is 55 down and 13 up and that is out of a maximum of 80 down and 20 up. This gives me a choice of taking thee 40/10 tier where I know I'll get 100% of my speed or taking the 80/20 tier and hoping for the best. The nice thing about BT is that at least I know what I am going to get consistently and the speed wont vary as much as it does on VM. If you try to proceed with your 60/whatever order you'll see you are signing up to the 80/20 tier whatever it is called.
They still advertise the maximum speed, but they are just more honest on the website. However with VM, if you aren't getting what you are paying for, then they will work on the network to try and get that speed for you (unless you go through the overseas call centres, who will just tell you that there is no fault). I was paying for 100mb, but could only get 75mb on a good day. So VM sent round an engineer who identified a fault on the network, and now I can get 105mb.
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Old 09-05-2012, 16:20   #1790
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Just been told that although my area is upgraded that my connection won't be until the discount code on my account clears next month
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Old 10-05-2012, 18:48   #1791
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan View Post
60 is 60. And that is what BT have told me is available to me. Or are you going to say that they are wrong also?

If you want to talk about name calling, the you should look at many of your previous posts when anyone doesn't agree with you. And also the private messages that you send.

It's about time that you were mature enough to accept that you don't know it all. And other people are entitled to make a post that you don't agree with, without you abusing them for it.


If you are right, then BT are also wrong, because they said quite clearly 60mb
I'll be happy to inform you that you are wrong. Just as with standard ADSL on BT not everyone can get 20Mb or 24Mb due to line length so everyone on VDSL / Infinity can't get 80Mb due to line length from cabinet.

If 80Mb weren't available in your area you wouldn't have the option to order 60Mb, just as with old ADSL which ran to 8Mb and 20Mb (on BT Total Broadband), if you received a quote over 8Mb you were in a 20Mb-capable area, no question.

Your home isn't capable of 80Mb, your area will have homes that are as they're closer to the cabinet, simples.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:33   #1792
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

I don't think he understands simples, since he couldn't quite grasp that if there's two options and it's not the first one then it must be the other.

Anyhow back to my original point, which was that unlike VM, BT deployed their double-speed upgrade across the whole network in one go, nobody has yet shown anything to prove otherwise. They said it'd be done by Spring, they did it in Spring, unlike VM who took till the end of March two years on last time they promised me an upgrade...
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:17   #1793
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq View Post
Anyhow back to my original point, which was that unlike VM, BT deployed their double-speed upgrade across the whole network in one go, nobody has yet shown anything to prove otherwise. They said it'd be done by Spring, they did it in Spring, unlike VM who took till the end of March two years on last time they promised me an upgrade...
So? The networks are built differently, and BT don't have to deal with kit that is anywhere up to 12 years old
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:29   #1794
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq View Post
I don't think he understands simples, since he couldn't quite grasp that if there's two options and it's not the first one then it must be the other.

Anyhow back to my original point, which was that unlike VM, BT deployed their double-speed upgrade across the whole network in one go, nobody has yet shown anything to prove otherwise. They said it'd be done by Spring, they did it in Spring, unlike VM who took till the end of March two years on last time they promised me an upgrade...
They did the 8a - 17a profile upgrade for the most part last year, just needed the rate caps lifting to 80Mb/20Mb.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:31   #1795
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Also when VM run a speed double programme the device does sync up at double the speed - though whether this then causes undue congestion on the network is of course a different point!

When BT announce a speed double programme they may roll it out nationally in one go but given the technology they use it doesn't change things for a lot of users.

While I don't have Infinity I checked the reported likely speed before - 34 Mb/s and after the speed double programme it still reports a likely speed of 34 Mb/s - so how would BT's speed double programme help me? As I understand it it will only help if you were running at 40 Mb/s before.

One of BT's challenges is in many cases an old rotting copper cable network.

As Ben say Virgin is still running with equipment in some cases 10 years old and also inadequate capacity at the local end to provide a consistently well performing solution in many locations.

Surely Virgin should start investing in replacement equipment for this ancient technology they still support, but also at the same time implement proactive capacity management. They are gathering statistics on utilisation so they should be in a position to plan capacity relief before it has an undue impact on customers.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:35   #1796
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarmock View Post
Surely Virgin should start investing in replacement equipment for this ancient technology they still support
That is partly what the double speed programme is doing.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:46   #1797
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Thats good to hear Ben. So that leaves the proactive capacity planning !

I was surprised to hear that in areas such as mine (fed from New Malden) that the upstream increases that were done came last to these old ex Telewest areas due to the old network here didn't generally involve replacing the older kit, so I assume that is happening now in these areas ready for the downstream speed doubling. Still on 4 downstreams here. The speed doubling is scheduled to be complete here by July.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:52   #1798
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarmock View Post
Thats good to hear Ben. So that leaves the proactive capacity planning !

I was surprised to hear that in areas such as mine (fed from New Malden) that the upstream increases that were done came last to these old ex Telewest areas due to the old network here didn't generally involve replacing the older kit, so I assume that is happening now in these areas ready for the downstream speed doubling. Still on 4 downstreams here. The speed doubling is scheduled to be complete here by July.
Yeah it did, several components that limited return paths to 30MHz had to be swapped out for shiny new stuff.

The doubling programme is all capacity increase so new line cards, node splits, etc. The upstream uplift for our areas involved swapping out of amplifiers and fibre nodes where needed.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:54   #1799
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarmock View Post
Surely Virgin should start investing in replacement equipment for this ancient technology they still support, but also at the same time implement proactive capacity management. They are gathering statistics on utilisation so they should be in a position to plan capacity relief before it has an undue impact on customers.
In fairness, as Ben says, VM are upgrading the equipment where they need to. This is why they are going area by area.

Where BT have installed Infinity, the equipment used will be (at most) a couple of years old, and, unless BT's management are extremely incompetent (which I don't think they are for a second), more than able to cope with the requirements of this speed doubling, and any future increase. As such, the doubling probably is a case of doing not much more than flicking a switch.
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:59   #1800
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Re: Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
So? The networks are built differently, and BT don't have to deal with kit that is anywhere up to 12 years old
True, but that wasn't the point. Yes, VM could be reasonably expected to take longer, but the way it was handled was lacking.

1) BT provided an estimated date last last year
2) Provided a precise date a few months in advance
3) Did required upgrades in advance (and successfully completed on time)
4) Enabled the service on the specified date which was known to everyone.

VM on the other hand (referring to the upload speed speed and 100mb upgrades for my area)

1) Failed to provide an estimated date until 11 months into the programme
2) Failed to keep to estimated date(s) three times in a row
3) Failed to perform network upgrades in an organized or timely manner
4) Turned on higher speeds as-and-when without giving customers (existing or prospective) any reliable information as to what they'd get

Most of these can be attributed to planning, organizational, and managerial failures and incompetence, you can't blame it all on old equipment - especially when VM has sole responsibility for all their own equipment.

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