Could a Data Prevent Act Notice Stop Overseas Call Centres?

[popper]

Originally Posted by ceedee

So it's okay for us to buy goods and services from outside our country and okay for a US company (Virgin Media) to sell their services overseas but not okay for them to outsource their CS to India?
You don't see the double standard?

It's your choice to use overseas call centres whenever you dial the number -- just use a different support method and let VM know why.
If you really want to get the message through, cancel your services and find a British company with British support. That's your choice too.

Oh, and I'll use whatever writing style I think is appropriate, thanks.
You're quite welcome to ignore my posts -- I promise I won't be offended!

No ceedee, by far the better and easyer option is to send a Data Protection Act Notice to VM or whoever, forbidding any Export of your Data outside the UK.

then they have no choice but to use Uk based personel, simple effective and doesnt involve running away from the battle....

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by popper

No ceedee, by far the better and easyer option is to send a Data Protection Act Notice to VM or whoever, forbidding any Export of your Data outside the UK.

then they have no choice but to use Uk based personel, simple effective and doesnt involve running away from the battle....

I'm more than a little sceptical that VM would accept such a DPA notice to limit Tech Support to UK personnel and look forward to reading an account of somebody making it stick in court.

Unfortunately, I suspect they'll simply say that you should use another method to contact them for assistance...

[popper]

Originally Posted by ceedee

I'm more than a little sceptical that VM would accept such a DPA notice to limit Tech Support to UK personnel and look forward to reading an account of somebody making it stick in court.

Unfortunately, I suspect they'll simply say that you should use another method to contact them for assistance...

you dont seem to understand,they have NO Choice but to legally accept your instructions in an official DPA Notice, its your data you can tell them EXACTLY what they can and cant do with it.

the DPA Notice is the most powerful and yet easyest to use weapon you have, use it to your advantage, alas many people dont realise that fact (until now ).

if you instruct them to not export your data, how else are they going to do that.

you dont say send my data to UK based personel...but as said, simply remove the right for them to Export in any way your data outside the UK....,but how else would they be able to process your data if they didnt then pass it to some UK personel?, you can remove the right to give access to your data in any way you please and they have to comply.

they have no other legal choice but to comply, or risk loosing their Data Processing licence, and so cant process for instance your billing data....

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by popper

you dont seem to understand,they have NO Choice but to legally accept your instructions in an official DPA Notice, its your data you can tell them EXACTLY what they can and cant do with it.

Please calm down and don't patronise me.

Of course VM can choose not to accept a DPA notice: firstly by deliberately breaking the law in the hope that I wouldn't bother to report it (and then hassle for their prosecution) and secondly by cancelling my account.
Funnily enough, I don't regard that as a solution to the poster's original complaint.

they have no other legal choice but to comply, or risk loosing their Data Processing licence, and so cant process for instance your billing data....

Fine. I can't wait to read your account of you "making it stick in court".

[Rhyming Obituary]

Originally Posted by ceedee

Please calm down and don't patronise me.

Of course VM can choose not to accept a DPA notice: firstly by deliberately breaking the law in the hope that I wouldn't bother to report it (and then hassle for their prosecution) and secondly by cancelling my account.
Funnily enough, I don't regard that as a solution to the poster's original complaint.



Fine. I can't wait to read your account of you "making it stick in court".

Not to mention that to have such a request processed, would mean it would have to be passed to VM's legal department who would then determine that the extra costs to the business (to ensure you deal with UK staff only) would be prohibitive. As a result they would regretfully inform you that as their business model involves allowing employees in India to have access for your data, they will be discontinuing your account.

[popper]

some people seem to think its a big deal and involves big money to get consumer justice in the Uk , it not...., for the majority of cases that can be dealt with in the simple 'small claims' county courts, that have existed for many hundreds of years, nip down your local County court and pick up an N1 form and the guidence leaflets etc, or use the web , the google is strong in this one luke

it wouldnt be passed to the legal department, it goes to the designated and legally required Data Controller inside the company, in this case
Data Controller: VIRGIN MEDIA LIMITED


Address:

160 GREAT PORTLAND STREET
LONDON
W1W 5QA

(see my tag for the DCO DPA searchable DC database)

you send your DPA Notice registered post, wait 40 days and if no action and written reply spelling out exactly what has been done to comply with your notice.......

you send a 'Data Protection Act Non-Compliance notice' to the data commissioners office and ask for a
ENFORCEMENT NOTICE

This is a formal notice requiring an organisation or individual to take specified actions in order to comply with the DPA. Enforcement notices are regulated by s40 of the DPA and failure to comply with the notice is a criminal offence.

The notice sets out the breaches that have been brought to the ICO’s attention (usually due to complaints by members of the public) and sets out the steps that must be taken to rectify the problems and a time limit for achieving compliance.

end of story......

or you can go the SC way if you like, but thats for another time and place after all the whole point of my posts here were to give the readers another choice rather than run away to prove a point and reverse an action.

enough time wasted on this a whole 5 minutes, got statute and legal ruleings to be finding for the Phorm Phun etc, later....

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by Rhyming Obituary

As a result they would regretfully inform you that as their business model involves allowing employees in India to have access for your data, they will be discontinuing your account.

Oh thank goodness somebody gets it!
Thank you, dear Sir (if that's not too presumptuous): I was beginning to wonder if it was my communications skills at fault today.

[popper]

there appears to be nothing wrong with 'your communications skills' as you put it...,you disagree and gave the readers your view that they can always run away and thats fine.

i showed you and the other readers how you can be far more effective using the existing law, and with no need to run away from the fight, and using very little effort at that.

infact far less effort that it would take to dump the contract, sign up somewere else, setup new payments, and then fight the VM accounts that have a tendency to keep billing for services and sending these phantom defaulted debts to the CRA's messing up your credit scores, even after you have canceled your contract and are no longer receaving the services.... etc , etc...

[Rob]

I've split this from another thread as it deserves it's own discussion.

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by popper

there appears to be nothing wrong with 'your communications skills' as you put it...,you disagree and gave the readers your view that they can always run away and thats fine.

i showed you and the other readers how you can be far more effective using the existing law, and with no need to run away from the fight, and using very little effort at that.

For the record, the only thing I disagree with is that using a DPA Notice would be an effective and practical method to avoid having Tech Support calls (on the premium phoneline) transferred to an offshore call centre.

As far as I'm aware, this use of the DPA is entirely untested and therefore unproven, notwithstanding that, as you say, VM *ought* to comply.
But that doesn't necessarily mean that they will.
I suspect it's far more likely that they'll ignore the Notice in the hope that you don't force the issue (ie. deliberately break the law) or, more likely, tell you that they can't comply with your instructions and offer to terminate your account.

However in the interests of pure legal research, why don't you submit a DPA Notice as you've outlined and see what happens. As I've previously stated, I'll be very interested to read your account and should VM comply by agreeing not to export your data, namely by restricting your TS calls to UK personnel, then I promise to stand you several virtual drinks.

[foreverwar]

One small problem, gentlemen (and any ladies who may be present) - you will find (probably) that VM (and other companies who have overseas call centres) don't export the data; it is stored in UK based systems and accessed by overseas call-centre staff, thus avoiding the issue of "exporting" data.

[Toto]

Popper. slow down there chum. If VM are supplying data to its offshore partners, its not leaving the confines of the VM network. They simply supply the VPN connections so that the data can be accessed remotely.

You're way off mate, nothwithstanding your cares for customer security. You provide me with one single piece of evidence where a UK bank was forced to cancel its offshore contracts because of a DPA issue that was breached because a contracted partner viewed customer data as part of their contractual obligations by a secure VPN connection, then I'll agree you may have a point.

[foreverwar]

Toto, agreed - a lot of money was spent on a lot of lawyers in the late 90's making sure that viewing the data on a screen offshore didn't breach the DPA - but good luck to anyone who wants to challenge it.

[popper]

a challenge ,it sounds like fun, im swamped right now but if im in the mood later i may take a look

in the mean time perhaps #914 bigbadcol can contribute some data and his experiance in this matter.....

[WHISTLED]

The act does have conditions around the transmission of data not just storage, but provisions are made in the act which state its acceptable if suitably protected.

Waste of time