Unfair charges banned

[foreverwar]

Originally Posted by webcrawler2050

Hmm I would say "unfair" is things like paying to pay wish cash - surly they'd welcome cash, I know its slighty more difficult to track but.. maybe its easier.. maybe.

Very few businesses want to be paid cash - you have to count it up, keep it secure, transport it, and then get it credited to your account; or, with DD, it just gets credited to your account.

Lot less time, cost, and effort for the companies.

[darthlinux]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Very few businesses want to be paid cash - you have to count it up, keep it secure, transport it, and then get it credited to your account; or, with DD, it just gets credited to your account.

Lot less time, cost, and effort for the companies.

And now more money for them for the millions that dont wanna pay by dd

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by webcrawler2050

Whats this about?

To go off topic for a sec, we do get some members sign up thinking this is a forum dedicated to Cables themselves, or that we are aimed toward Cable companies or installers (rather than Cable users). Could be that the poster is one of those people.

[grabbi]

Well, I do Debit Card payments every single month.

I paid via their Bank twice back in the ntl: days, but since, its been this way. I dont think i should be charged for basically doing the same thing as a Direct Debit, the only thing different, is that I call them up once a month, and they take the details.

It takes the same amount of time (sometimes less) and its a preferred method for me with Auth. Codes and such like.

[popper]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

I used to think that the non DD charge was unfair, until i found out that a basic bank account with no overdraft etc is available to every person in the UK and isnt dependant on their credit rating.
Clearly paying by any other means is going to cost more (not to say it costs £5 though) So it is an avoidable charge

yes lost ,we have been through this before, and as a reminder, it helps to supply all the known facts to be fair.

these accounts you refer to,are part of the uk govt initative (brown when in No.11)to force all benefits through the banking initative to save money.

the banking code and the 'blue book' state that no bank charges
whatso ever shall be made against these accounts/state benefits inside,
but they do charge anyway.

ignoring the above for a moment,many of these basic accounts DO NOT allow direct debit or any other options other than cash withdrawl, such as the post office account etc.

due to the lack of morels, and the banks ignoring the rules put in place, many a customer has been placed in the position of being over drawn and incured charges on this state benefit (such as vm asking for an early/overcharge/faulty payment etc).

for instance the case of A&L taking 3 weeks child benefit per month in charges for an early VM (1 day) DD that made the account 50p overdrawn for the day.

a last point in relation to this topic, the uk law states a direct debit is 'tantermount to a cash payment' and so should be charged at the same rate as a cash payment, or the reverse if your looking at it from the other pov, no charge for dd then no charge for cash eather.

[frogstamper]

You want to talk about unfair, hows this. I switched from analogue tv to digital about 18 months ago, with no virgin phone or Internet, then last September I gave in and signed up for phone and broadband. Whilst looking on the Virgin site I noticed that they only charge £9.50 for an additional set top box, it was then my blood started to boil when I realized Id been paying £14.95 a month for the last 14 months for my extra stb. Upon ringing and complaining I was told that I now qualify for the discount of £5, now my stb is £9.50. Before I ring and go ballistic is anybody else paying £14.95 for an additional stb or as I now suspect Virgin have been ripping me off for over a year.

[Mick Fisher]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

You want to talk about unfair, hows this. I switched from analogue tv to digital about 18 months ago, with no virgin phone or Internet, then last September I gave in and signed up for phone and broadband. Whilst looking on the Virgin site I noticed that they only charge £9.50 for an additional set top box, it was then my blood started to boil when I realized Id been paying £14.95 a month for the last 14 months for my extra stb. Upon ringing and complaining I was told that I now qualify for the discount of £5, now my stb is £9.50. Before I ring and go ballistic is anybody else paying £14.95 for an additional stb or as I now suspect Virgin have been ripping me off for over a year.

I don't doubt that one little bit. I had VM TV from when they were Comtel. When I went digital they said I would have to have their telephone service. I said I didn't want it because I had tried it and it never worked. They said too bad if you want DTV you will have to pay for it anyway. So I stupidly agreed.

Engineer arrives and he don't know anything about a phone line so I end up paying for a non-existant phone line for the next 10 years. Repeated attempts to resolve this issue always ended with VM hanging up the phone on me. Retentions flatly refused to do anything about it so I am now, very happily, with Sky for my TV service. It was the best move I ever made.

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

I used to think that the non DD charge was unfair, until i found out that a basic bank account with no overdraft etc is available to every person in the UK and isnt dependant on their credit rating.

You would think but this is not allways the case!

A bank can still refuse to provide you even with a basic bank account, for example you must have either a drivers license or passport to obtain even a basic bank account with HSBC, if you do not drive and have never been abroad your screwed!!

I know a family member who is blacklisted to the hilt, she opened a basic bank account with nationwide, (Think it was nationwide) and a week later she had a letter by special delivery saying they were closing the account due to here current credit rating and she was to return the card.

And before you ask it was a basic bank account because she had and still has the welcome letter saying so.

She went through four different banks trying to get a basic bank account and couldn't. She finally managed to get one though with halifax, so it is not as cut and dry as you or others may think.

A friend of mine works in the job centre and he was saying they still pay a few by giro as they can't even get a basic bank account!

[ahardie]

Originally Posted by Mick Fisher

I don't doubt that one little bit. I had VM TV from when they were Comtel. When I went digital they said I would have to have their telephone service. I said I didn't want it because I had tried it and it never worked. They said too bad if you want DTV you will have to pay for it anyway. So I stupidly agreed.

Engineer arrives and he don't know anything about a phone line so I end up paying for a non-existant phone line for the next 10 years. Repeated attempts to resolve this issue always ended with VM hanging up the phone on me. Retentions flatly refused to do anything about it so I am now, very happily, with Sky for my TV service. It was the best move I ever made.

You paid for a non-existent phone line for 10 years???

I would have expected to have it working within the first week or I would have threatened them with court action. I would have at least expected a refund and some compensation. I really think Mick that if you paid for a non-existent phone service for 10 years and let them get away with it then you must shoulder some of the blame.

[pmdelany]

It's easy for VM to sort out, they put the charges up by £5 and then offer a discount of £5 to those paying by DD.

[Mick Fisher]

Originally Posted by ahardie

You paid for a non-existent phone line for 10 years???

I would have expected to have it working within the first week or I would have threatened them with court action. I would have at least expected a refund and some compensation. I really think Mick that if you paid for a non-existent phone service for 10 years and let them get away with it then you must shoulder some of the blame.

Well I am disabled and practically housebound. I would go insane without TV. I had line of sight problems for Sky and it seems impossible to get anyone to install a rooftop aeriel anymore for Freeview. So they had me over a barrel. I wasn't unduly worried about the phone line as I knew it probably wouldn't work anyway, but it was just the principal of it.

Anyway when I knew I could get definately get a Sky install on a mast I called retentions and told them if they didn't remove the phoneline charge I was off to Sky. They said they would not under any circumstance remove the charge and bid me bye-bye. The Agent did give me half price BB for 3 months as a good will gesture. As if to rub salt into the wound this good will gesture was not actually carried out and a subsequent phone call revealed there was nothing on my account. The outcome from VM was too bad, nothing they would do.

It all just goes to illustrate the contempt VM have for there customers. Second rate service from a cowboy outfit of a company. There latest antics with spyware just serve to reinforce my opinion.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

You want to talk about unfair, hows this. I switched from analogue tv to digital about 18 months ago, with no virgin phone or Internet, then last September I gave in and signed up for phone and broadband. Whilst looking on the Virgin site I noticed that they only charge £9.50 for an additional set top box, it was then my blood started to boil when I realized Id been paying £14.95 a month for the last 14 months for my extra stb. Upon ringing and complaining I was told that I now qualify for the discount of £5, now my stb is £9.50. Before I ring and go ballistic is anybody else paying £14.95 for an additional stb or as I now suspect Virgin have been ripping me off for over a year.

18 months ago Virgin wasn't around. Ntl and Telewest both charged £15 per extra STB.

When Virgin Media launched for any boxes taken out after that point the price was £9.50.

Up to you whether you see it as rip off or not.

Originally Posted by Mick Fisher

I don't doubt that one little bit. I had VM TV from when they were Comtel. When I went digital they said I would have to have their telephone service. I said I didn't want it because I had tried it and it never worked. They said too bad if you want DTV you will have to pay for it anyway. So I stupidly agreed.

Engineer arrives and he don't know anything about a phone line so I end up paying for a non-existant phone line for the next 10 years. Repeated attempts to resolve this issue always ended with VM hanging up the phone on me. Retentions flatly refused to do anything about it so I am now, very happily, with Sky for my TV service. It was the best move I ever made.

In ex-ntl areas it always used to be you paid for the digital service and you got the phone free. So you didn't pay for a phone service you didnt have as there was literally no difference in price.

Eg ntl tv base pack on its on 22.50. ntl tv base pack and phone 22.50

so phoning customer relations to say 'i don't have a phoneline' would have done nothing.

Again, when Virgin launched they introduced standalone TV packages (which telewest had done for a while) which are at most £8 cheaper than TV + phone

E.G. XL Standalone £25. XL and phone £31.50

[Mick Fisher]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

In ex-ntl areas it always used to be you paid for the digital service and you got the phone free. So you didn't pay for a phone service you didnt have as there was literally no difference in price.

Eg ntl tv base pack on its on 22.50. ntl tv base pack and phone 22.50

so phoning customer relations to say 'i don't have a phoneline' would have done nothing.

Again, when Virgin launched they introduced standalone TV packages (which telewest had done for a while) which are at most £8 cheaper than TV + phone

E.G. XL Standalone £25. XL and phone £31.50

It doesn't matter how you spin it Ben, forcing customers to pay for a extra phoneline they don't want or giving a free phoneline with a DTV service that costs a tenner more than the equivalent Sky package and then resisting all attempts to actually get that phoneline installed is a blatent rip off.
In anycase the DTV service was absolute rubbish and I am glad to be rid of it.

[BenMcr]

I wasn't spinning anything, I was explaining how ntl used to charge. I do agree though that then not installing the phoneline when you do want it wasn't right.

Shouldn't happen now

[XFS03]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

In ex-ntl areas it always used to be you paid for the digital service and you got the phone free. So you didn't pay for a phone service you didnt have as there was literally no difference in price.

Eg ntl tv base pack on its on 22.50. ntl tv base pack and phone 22.50

so phoning customer relations to say 'i don't have a phoneline' would have done nothing.

Again, when Virgin launched they introduced standalone TV packages (which telewest had done for a while) which are at most £8 cheaper than TV + phone

E.G. XL Standalone £25. XL and phone £31.50

When I joined ntl in January 2003, the prices of the TV packages always had in the small print "The price includes a phone line of £10.50 or £11 (can't remember exactly) which must be taken". So it hasn't always been advertised as "free".

I think it's obvious that it never was free. The cost of the phone was simply added to the cost of the TV, as is now shown by the unbundled price.

As I only became an ntl user from 2003, can anyone point to any official literature that shows that the word "free" was used? I am just wondering if the actual wording might have been "includes phone line", which is not the same as "free".